The gap in the 70 weeks is not absurd

[Guest]

Even if Aaron doesn't get anything out of this I know I have. This is great stuff. Curious though, and I'm sorry that it is a little off track, but how does the pp/am view the major tribulations in revelations? Are they yet to happen or did they happen already?

[Guest]

Aaron,

I'd like to make a couple of suggestions if I may. And please don't be offended by this because it is truly meant as a brother to brother exhortation.

1. I'd like to recommend that you post-pone (for now) your study in eschatology and take up a study on humility or unity or something else more useful. Be dispensational. Be very dispensational if you wish. Or be undecided. It doesn't matter much. But I think right now it's a topic that has got a hold of you in a bad way. You've already admitted a number of times in this thread alone that you are just beginning to consider and study the topic, yet it appears you've already made up your mind what need to believe (and apparently defend) and you have come out with your six-shooters blazing against those who know your own views better than you do. It's one thing to sincerely challenge and question what you don't understand, it's quite another to attack Steve and others on this forum on a topic you know very little about. Consider what God said to Job:

Job 38:2
2 "Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
NKJV

2. I'd also like to suggest that you go back and read this thread you began a couple of months ago:

http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=841&start=15

You were a totally different person on this thread bro. I saw a very humble individual there who admitted that he'd become obsessed and negatively affected by this topic and now I see something completely different. And it's not what I would consider a change for the better. There's a reason you've been asked your age a couple of times now, it's not a coincidence. I think we should heed the words of James:

James 1:19
19 So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath;
NKJV

Let us learn through study and humble inquiry rather than uncharitable quarrel.

Lord bless you brother. And again, I hope you will prayerfully consider this and not take it the wrong way.

Others: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.

In Him.

[Guest]

Wise words, Christopher.

[Guest]

Hi micah,

Those are great questions. The neat about this forum, is that are different views about Revelation, even with the amill/pp camp. Steve Gregg moves into an idealist view at certain points in Rev., and I apreciate Steve7150's (is that the correct number, Steve?) historical approach.

What I enjoy about the forum also, is the openness to admitting not knowing a certain passage's meaning. This often comes from people with very strong views who are humble enough to share their skepticism as well. One thing I'm working through in Revelation is whether or not the judgements are entirely upon Israel in the first century, or, whether the latter half is a judgement on Rome.

I hope that sheds some light, and others, who are more articulate and knowledgable will probably help you more.

JD

[Guest]

Even if Aaron doesn't get anything out of this I know I have. This is great stuff. Curious though, and I'm sorry that it is a little off track, but how does the pp/am view the major tribulations in revelations? Are they yet to happen or did they happen already?

I see Revelation 6 as a likely parallel to Matthew 24, as for the rest. I haven't made up my mind yet.

[Guest]

It is true that most of you do know the side I am choosing to take better than I do. Probably all of you do. That doesn't make it wrong, it just means I have to do a little learning first. Most of you have put me to shame with your kindness about my tirade that I started. JD, I sense in your tone that you have the same humility problems I do sometimes but maybe we can both work that problem out together, bro.

I will indeed study deeper into the position I take. I feel that many of you know all of it's facets simply for the reason of arguing against it. I want to understand it better and will discuss it as I go and with a more humble tone, I still trust in dispensationalism. Not through rigorous study (as is obvious ) but through the leading of the Spirit.

Thanks again for the gentle repremand,
Aaron

[Guest]

Thank you for not getting offended Aaron, the Spirit is truly in you.

[Jill]

Sean your placement of Jesus Crucificion in the middle of the 70th week is unscholarly at best but Im not suprised,you said this


"thought I already answered Crusader on this one. The 69 1/2 week Jesus is crucified. 3 1/2 years (half a "week") go by were God deal directly with Israel. When the final week passes, Peter is given his vision and Paul/Saul is converted. This best explains the gap of time were only Jews were converted in the early part of Acts and there was only the Jerusalem Church. When the 70th week expired, it was not longer Jews only that were offered enterance into the Church. It was "first to the Jew, then to the Gentile".



...See what Dr Ice wrote Sean and why doesnt your math add up.

"Dr Hoehner questioned the times calculated by Sir Robert Anderson and actually has it dialed in. Hoehner advocates the time of Artaxerxes decree to rebuild the temple at 444 b.c. not 445 b.c.

The date of this decree is given ion the biblical record.Nehemiah heard of Jersusalems desloate conditions in the month of Chslev ( November/December) in Artaxerxes tewntieth year. Then later in Artaxerxes twentieth year in the month of Nisan ( March/April) Nehemiah that he was granted permission to restore the city and build its walls(2:1) To have Nisan later than Chislev (in the same year) may seem strange until one relaizes that Nehemiah was using a Tishri-to Tiashri ( September/ Ocotber) dating method rather than the Persian Nisan to Nisan mehtod.Nehemiah was following what was used by the Kings of Judah earlier in thier history. This method used by Nehemia was confirmed by the Jews in Elephantine who also used this method during the same time periosd as Nehemiah.

Next,one needs to establish the beginning of Artaxerxes rule. His father Xerexs died shortly after Dec. 17, 456 b.c. and Artaxerxes immeditely suceeded him. Since the accession-year-ssytem was used the first year Artaxerxes reign according to the Persian Nisan to Nisan reckoning would be Nisan 464 to Nisan 463 and according to the Jewish Tishri to Tishri reckoning wouold be Tishri 464 to Tishri 463.
In conclusion the report toi Nehemiah 1:1 occurred in Cheslev ( Nov/dec) od 445 B.C. and the decree of Artaxerxes occured in Nisan ) mar/April) of 444 B.C.

Therefore Nisan 444 b.c. marks the terminus ad quo ( or beggining of the 70 weeks)
Dr Hoehner further objects to Sir Andersons use of the solar year instead of the sabattical year. He also fine tuned some of Anderson calculatiuons.
First in light of new evidence since Andersons day,the 445 b.c. date is not acceptable for Artaxerxes twentieht year,instead decree was given Nisan 444 b.c..Second the a.d. 32 darte fore the crucifixion is untenable. It would mean that Christ was crucified on either a Sunday or Monday. In fact Anderson realizes that deleima and he has to do mathematical gymanstics to arrive at a Friday crucifixion.There is no good evidence for an A.D.32 crucifixion.

Reckoning His death according to the Julien calender Christ died onFriday April 3 a.d.33.As dicussed above the terminous a quo occured in Nisan 444 b.c.Although Nehmiah 2:1 does not specifiy which o of Nisan the dcree to rebuild went out,it couldnt have occured between Nisan 1.
Using the calculating method of Anderson Dr Hoehner comes up with 476 solar years. This is the diference bewteen 444 b.c and ad 33.
This leaves only 25 days to be accounted for between 444 b.c. and a.d. 33.By adding 25 days to Nisan 1 or March 5 ( of 444 b.c.) one comes to March 30 ( of a.d.33) which was Nisan 10 in A.D. 33.This is the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem.
As predicted on Zechariah 9:9 Christ presented Himself to Israel as MessiahThis happened pn Monday,Nisan 10 ( March 30) and only four days later Friday Nisan 14 ( april 3) Jesus was crucified.. Practically all expositors put Christ cucifiction right ast the end of the 69th 7." Check out his whole article if you can stand to!!!!!!


http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=10

Maranatha

Crusader

[Guest]

Thanks JD and Sean. I find your views interesting. They do make a lot of sense. I'll definitely have to do so more studying on the topic. Thanks again.

[Guest]

Sean your placement of Jesus Crucificion in the middle of the 70th week is unscholarly at best but Im not suprised,you said this


"thought I already answered Crusader on this one. The 69 1/2 week Jesus is crucified. 3 1/2 years (half a "week") go by were God deal directly with Israel. When the final week passes, Peter is given his vision and Paul/Saul is converted. This best explains the gap of time were only Jews were converted in the early part of Acts and there was only the Jerusalem Church. When the 70th week expired, it was not longer Jews only that were offered enterance into the Church. It was "first to the Jew, then to the Gentile".



...See what Dr Ice wrote Sean and why doesnt your math add up.

"Dr Hoehner questioned the times calculated by Sir Robert Anderson and actually has it dialed in. Hoehner advocates the time of Artaxerxes decree to rebuild the temple at 444 b.c. not 445 b.c.

The date of this decree is given ion the biblical record.Nehemiah heard of Jersusalems desloate conditions in the month of Chslev ( November/December) in Artaxerxes tewntieth year. Then later in Artaxerxes twentieth year in the month of Nisan ( March/April) Nehemiah that he was granted permission to restore the city and build its walls(2:1) To have Nisan later than Chislev (in the same year) may seem strange until one relaizes that Nehemiah was using a Tishri-to Tiashri ( September/ Ocotber) dating method rather than the Persian Nisan to Nisan mehtod.Nehemiah was following what was used by the Kings of Judah earlier in thier history. This method used by Nehemia was confirmed by the Jews in Elephantine who also used this method during the same time periosd as Nehemiah.

Next,one needs to establish the beginning of Artaxerxes rule. His father Xerexs died shortly after Dec. 17, 456 b.c. and Artaxerxes immeditely suceeded him. Since the accession-year-ssytem was used the first year Artaxerxes reign according to the Persian Nisan to Nisan reckoning would be Nisan 464 to Nisan 463 and according to the Jewish Tishri to Tishri reckoning wouold be Tishri 464 to Tishri 463.
In conclusion the report toi Nehemiah 1:1 occurred in Cheslev ( Nov/dec) od 445 B.C. and the decree of Artaxerxes occured in Nisan ) mar/April) of 444 B.C.

Therefore Nisan 444 b.c. marks the terminus ad quo ( or beggining of the 70 weeks)
Dr Hoehner further objects to Sir Andersons use of the solar year instead of the sabattical year. He also fine tuned some of Anderson calculatiuons.
First in light of new evidence since Andersons day,the 445 b.c. date is not acceptable for Artaxerxes twentieht year,instead decree was given Nisan 444 b.c..Second the a.d. 32 darte fore the crucifixion is untenable. It would mean that Christ was crucified on either a Sunday or Monday. In fact Anderson realizes that deleima and he has to do mathematical gymanstics to arrive at a Friday crucifixion.There is no good evidence for an A.D.32 crucifixion.

Reckoning His death according to the Julien calender Christ died onFriday April 3 a.d.33.As dicussed above the terminous a quo occured in Nisan 444 b.c.Although Nehmiah 2:1 does not specifiy which o of Nisan the dcree to rebuild went out,it couldnt have occured between Nisan 1.
Using the calculating method of Anderson Dr Hoehner comes up with 476 solar years. This is the diference bewteen 444 b.c and ad 33.
This leaves only 25 days to be accounted for between 444 b.c. and a.d. 33.By adding 25 days to Nisan 1 or March 5 ( of 444 b.c.) one comes to March 30 ( of a.d.33) which was Nisan 10 in A.D. 33.This is the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem.
As predicted on Zechariah 9:9 Christ presented Himself to Israel as MessiahThis happened pn Monday,Nisan 10 ( March 30) and only four days later Friday Nisan 14 ( april 3) Jesus was crucified.. Practically all expositors put Christ cucifiction right ast the end of the 69th 7." Check out his whole article if you can stand to!!!!!!


http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=10

Maranatha

Crusader

That's the standard dispensational cut-n-paste. You need to research all views of the timeline, not just the one you find on the pre-trib website.