The gap in the 70 weeks is not absurd

[Guest]

So, AARON,

What does the ending of sacrifices in Daniel 9 speak of?

Thanks,
JD

When the sacrifices, after once again reinstated, will be put to an end by the future antichrist.

[Guest]

Good. Thank you. Wait. I thought you told Steve that the sacrifices didn't cease. Why would they need to be reinstated, if they never ceased?

Now, here's my follow-up question. Ezekiel 40-48 pictures a temple, with sacrifices occurring in it. Do you take Ezekiel 40-48 to be yet future?

Thanks,
JD

[Guest]

Aaron,

Once again, you missed my point. Hebrews 10:18 specifically says that "there is no longer an offering for sin," ever since the New Covenant has brought remission of sins.

This means that there is no longer any validity or need for the offerings of the Old Covenant arrangement—but the actual wording says that "there is no longer an offering," which is equivalent to saying that such offerings have "ceased."

Though there were, in the writer's time, priests who continued offering sacrifices at the temple, it is nonetheless said that "there is no more offering."

The writer tells us that, had an offering been made in the Old Testament that took away sins, the ritual sacrifices would have "ceased to be offered" (v.2). He then goes on to say that there has now been such a sacrifice given which does take away sins. By his own reasoning, then, legitimate ritual sacrifices in the temple have "ceased to be offered."

Sure, there were priests who continued to offer illegitimate sacrifices long after Jesus died, just as there are witch doctors today, and at all times, who sacrifice chickens to evil spirits. So what? The existence of people who practice rituals that God does not sanction has no bearing on the fact that, so far as God and His people are concerned, there is no more offering for sin beyond that which Christ made. The system ceased with the crucifixion.

By the way, it would seem that JD has nailed your position.

[Guest]

I like it Aarondisney...I agree. It only makes sense,pretersists have a huge problem....69 weeks tick right along and then stop...Why? It stopped it to start the Church! It will restart when we are gone and God deals with Israel. If preterists say it didnt stop then theyve got a 40 year gap....you nailed thier position,which is obviously riddled with timeing probelms.

Crusader

[Guest]

Aaron wrote:

And so this ushered in the Church age in which God is no longer dealing strictly with Israel but with the church.

Crusader wrote:

It will restart when we are gone and God deals with Israel.

I'd like to know where you guys get this idea that God only "deals" with one group of people at a time. I know this is common dispensational dogma, but is this the same God..


...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Tim 2:4 NKJV

and..

...now commands all men everywhere to repent,
Acts 17:30 NKJV


Even if we are to grant that the "Gentile church" and Israel are two separate entities (which I do not), are we to understand that "all men" excludes Jews until God is done "dealing" with the church? Is an omnipresent, omnipotent God not capable of multi-tasking? Why would He need 2000 years to deal with Gentiles before He gets back to the true "apple of His eye"?

[Guest]

If preterists say it didnt stop then theyve got a 40 year gap....you nailed thier position,which is obviously riddled with timeing probelms.

True prophesy is guaranteed to occur. Are we guaranteed to always understand and recognize the connection when it does though? The Jews, for the most part, did not recognize all the fullfillment in Christ. Didn't mean that they didn't occur. I don't know if the preterism interpretation is correct or not, but since we peer through a glass darkly, I don't really expect to know all the answers. I don't expect the preterists to either. The futurist have an advantage. They can claim anything they want. The only history that they have to deal with is their own history of claims.
D.

[Guest]

Hey Aarondisney..Check out Dr. Thomas Ice intelligent view of the whoe idea...its smokin hot bro...

http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=10


Maranatha

Crusader

[Guest]

Typically true to form, Crusader has come charging in with comments that make it clear that he has either not read, or else not understood, the foregoing posts in the thread. Carry on, you two. You make the opponents of dispensationalism look good.

However, I am done dialoging with Crusader, so feel free to carry-on without me.

[Guest]

Aaron,

You seem to indicate that the 70 weeks would be completed at the dispensational second coming of Christ (7 years after the pre-tribulation rapture). I suppose this means that sacrifices must by then have ceased as well, since Daniel indicates that this would occur during the 70 weeks. How is it then possible that there will be reinstituted temple sacrifices in the still future millennial reign of Christ, seeing that this occurs after the “tribulation” (and thus, after the 70 weeks are completed)?

JJR

[_Sean]

I like it Aarondisney...I agree. It only makes sense,pretersists have a huge problem....69 weeks tick right along and then stop...Why? It stopped it to start the Church! It will restart when we are gone and God deals with Israel. If preterists say it didnt stop then theyve got a 40 year gap....you nailed thier position,which is obviously riddled with timeing probelms.

Crusader

I thought I already answered Crusader on this one. The 69 1/2 week Jesus is crucified. 3 1/2 years (half a "week") go by were God deal directly with Israel. When the final week passes, Peter is given his vision and Paul/Saul is converted. This best explains the gap of time were only Jews were converted in the early part of Acts and there was only the Jerusalem Church. When the 70th week expired, it was not longer Jews only that were offered enterance into the Church. It was "first to the Jew, then to the Gentile".

The flaw in the dispensational system is that they unbiblically claim that God stopped dealing with Israel and started the non-Israeli church instead. Paul says otherwise:

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands--
Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
Eph 2:17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
Eph 2:21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Eph 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles--
Eph 3:2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,
Eph 3:3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly.
Eph 3:4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.
Eph 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.



Dispensationalism fails at this point, at it's very foundation. There is not division between the Church and Israel! Paul states this fact. The Gentiles are being grafted into Israel.

Also, you can't say God is dealing with the Church now and during the tribulation deal with Israel and at the same time say that God is working with Israel right now by, as you say, regathering them to their land.

So which is it. Is God gonna wait until the rapture to deal with Israel or is God working with them now. You can't have it both ways! You can't say that your view of Daniel 9 is that we are in the "gap" were God is not dealing "Israel" and at the same time say that God began working with Israel in 1948. Contradiction

Paul said the Chuch was Israel and Gentile combined. Dispensationalism says they are seperate on seperate "plans". I'll go with Paul. Dispensationalist cannot answer Paul in Ephesians 2-3. It demolishes their doctrine of a phanotm seperation of the two. They are clearly made into one new "man". This singular "man" is the body of Christ, aka, the Church (Eph 1:22-23).