You wrote:
A prince is of the same substance as his parents. Do you believe Jesus is of the same substance as God?He was divine as a prince is royal.
A prince is of the same substance as his parents. Do you believe Jesus is of the same substance as God?He was divine as a prince is royal.
I challenge your premise -- where do you get this from? Just keeping to my examples, neither Joseph nor Moses were of the same substance as Pharaoh. Having an adopted son, I challenge this strongly.
I am not understanding you. Are you saying Jesus was not born of a virgin, that He was an adopted Son, and His relation to the Father is no more than that of Moses to Pharoah?He was divine as a prince is royal. He was the son of God and adopted in a sense as a true bearer of the right to rule and of the power afforded the ruler
You seem to see Jesus as "divine"; can you define what that means to you? Is Jesus "God stuff"?Ousia (/ˈuːziə, ˈuːsiə, ˈuːʒə, ˈuːʃə/; Ancient Greek: οὐσία) is an important philosophical and theological term, originally used in ancient Greek philosophy, then later in Christian theology. It was used by various ancient Greek philosophers, like Plato and Aristotle, as a primary designation for philosophical concepts of essence or substance. In contemporary philosophy, it is analogous to English concepts of being and ontic. In Christian theology, the concept of θεία ουσία (divine essence) is one of the most important doctrinal concepts, central to the development of trinitarian doctrine.
I don't know exactly what divine means sufficiently to define it. He is in some sense "God stuff" as you say, but we're not told exactly in what way. He was human and born of a human - of a virgin, yes - that was miraculous and special and prevented him from having the human consequences of original sin, had the capacity not to sin from the beginning even before his anointing by the spirit and was able to commune directly with the spirit without the need for a special justification unlike every other human being since Eve - he wasn't adopted as his son (I don't think - though adoptionism has some merit) but was his son from conception as a result of the spirit conceiving him. I guess adopted isn't a perfect word for his elevation - but he did inherit and was granted his status as rightful ruler at the right hand of God.Homer wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:29 pmDariin,
You wrote:
I am not understanding you. Are you saying Jesus was not born of a virgin, that He was an adopted Son, and His relation to the Father is no more than that of Moses to Pharoah?He was divine as a prince is royal. He was the son of God and adopted in a sense as a true bearer of the right to rule and of the power afforded the ruler
By "substance" I mean as follows:
You seem to see Jesus as "divine"; can you define what that means to you? Is Jesus "God stuff"?Ousia (/ˈuːziə, ˈuːsiə, ˈuːʒə, ˈuːʃə/; Ancient Greek: οὐσία) is an important philosophical and theological term, originally used in ancient Greek philosophy, then later in Christian theology. It was used by various ancient Greek philosophers, like Plato and Aristotle, as a primary designation for philosophical concepts of essence or substance. In contemporary philosophy, it is analogous to English concepts of being and ontic. In Christian theology, the concept of θεία ουσία (divine essence) is one of the most important doctrinal concepts, central to the development of trinitarian doctrine.
But, unlike the Father and the Spirit. They are distinguished from each other, but are never distinguished from God. Never do you see anything approaching "God and the Spirit" or "God and the Father". They are distinguished from each other, but not from God. The Lamb is.dwight92070 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:04 pmDarin, yes God is distinguished from the Lamb, just like the Father is distinguished from the Son and the Holy Spirit in the Trinity. No surprise there. They are distinct, yet they are God.
Dwight - First of all, we know that the Lamb is Jesus. Revelation 5:9 makes that very clear. Jesus clearly identifies Himself as "the first and the last" (Revelation 1:17-18 and 2:8), which is a title that God uses for Himself in the Old Testament (Isaiah 44:6). So the Lamb is not distinguished from God, considering the whole of the Bible. He might be in Revelation 5, but when He is worshiped equally with God, that distinction disappears, and we realize that both are God. Of course the Father and the Spirit are never distinguished from God, because they are God. So each member of the Trinity is distinct and yet each is God. Also, in another sense, it seems as though each is the other.darinhouston wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:05 pmBut, unlike the Father and the Spirit. They are distinguished from each other, but are never distinguished from God. Never do you see anything approaching "God and the Spirit" or "God and the Father". They are distinguished from each other, but not from God. The Lamb is.dwight92070 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:04 pmDarin, yes God is distinguished from the Lamb, just like the Father is distinguished from the Son and the Holy Spirit in the Trinity. No surprise there. They are distinct, yet they are God.