Debating a Muslim

[Guest]

Hi,

I'm meeting a muslim in a couple weeks to have a friendly debate with him at a coffee shop.

I am not highly experienced with debates, and only have limited knowledge on Islam.

The main point I was going to hit on was Jesus Christ. I want him to know there is no "Jesus the Prophet".
Jesus forgave sins, Jesus accepted worship, he claimed to be equal with the Father, and even claimed to be God. So Jesus was ether God, or he was a liar, or the Devil. The option of being a good teacher and one of God's prophets is not left as an option.

I know one of the main arguements by Muslims is that our Bible has been altered and is not accurate. I will challenge him on this, and present our manuscript evidence that supports an accurate Bible, I will also be asking him to present evidence that shows the curruption of our text, because anyone can make statements like this, but need to be backed up with actual objective evidence.

I will also be praying before our meeting.

If anyone has knowledge in this subject and can give me advice , I would apreciate their help. If anyone has good questions I can ask, or know good questions Muslims ask, anything to help out with this debate, will be a great help.

[Guest]

Muslims say that Christ was never crucified and God would never make his representative go through that humiliation. Be prepared to explain the reason for the crucifixion and resurrection because it will be an issue. You might want to check out Paidion's thread on the atonement.
Muslims claim that proof of Mohammed is the verse from Moses about a prophet such as himself will come who we should listen to. But Moses further said this prophet will be "from among my brethern" which Mohammed was not.
They also don't look at God as a God of love nor having a personal relationship with him nor a certainty of salvation.
Perhaps the fact that there are over 6,000 almost identical copies of the NT is evidence they have'nt been corrupted.
Also they recognize the OT which says you need at least 2 witnesses for proof of integrity wheras the Quran only has one which is Mohammed alone.

[Guest]

One more thing is that a muslim will say the NT is corrupt because of all the translations from one language into another but really an english bible is just kione greek into english. Not all that difficult.

[Guest]

Jason,


They say God has no Son and they say Jesus was just another prophet, yet they believe He was born of a virgin. I have never come across a Muslim who could explain this severe flaw in theology. If he is not the Son of God, than who's Son is he!! What was the purpose of His virgin birth and His high standing, if we know nothing of Him?

They will also recognize he is the Messiah, yet in all of Mohamed's writings, we do not even know the teachings of this "great prophet", why is that? I have never been given a real answer, other than his teachings were corrupted. Somehow those teachings are not quite corrupt enough to lean on to support their case. For instance they will use the John verses where Jesus talks about the Holy Spirit, coming as a counselor. They say Jesus is talking about Mohamed here. Beside the obvious flaws in this argument, you must stop them dead in their tracks whenever they try to use our scripture to prove their point. They can either use them in their entirety or not us them at all. Who are they to discern what is accurate and what is not, and then choose to use what they need to, for arguments against it!! How absurd is this thinking!

I have always said, to believe in Islam we must dis-credit 1500 hundred years of prophecy and teachings by dozens of men, as well as come to the conclusion all we know about the life of Jesus is a lie. Then in turn believe the words of one sinful and adulterous man and believe in his testimony alone.


I will keep you in my prayers. May God be with you on this day.

[Guest]

Jason,

If you have a copy of the Koran, check SURA IV:157. It speaks as badly of Jesus as could be spoken. He did not die for us but someone was substituted for Him!

Quote: And for their saying, "Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son if Mary, an apostle of God." Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness. (note: Literally one who was made to appear to them like (Jesus). And they who differed about him were in doubt concerning him: No sure knowledge had they about him, but followed only an opinion, and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself. And God is Mighty, Wise!

I will pray for you. Blessings, Homer

[Guest]

Thank you very much, God bless you guys.

You have definently given me some great arguements to suggest to him,

Moses about a prophet such as himself will come who we should listen to. But Moses further said this prophet will be "from among my brethern" which Mohammed was not

Also they recognize the OT which says you need at least 2 witnesses for proof of integrity wheras the Quran only has one which is Mohammed alone.

If he is not the Son of God, than who's Son is he!! What was the purpose of His virgin birth and His high standing, if we know nothing of Him?

For instance they will use the John verses where Jesus talks about the Holy Spirit, coming as a counselor. They say Jesus is talking about Mohamed here. Beside the obvious flaws in this argument, you must stop them dead in their tracks whenever they try to use our scripture to prove their point. They can either use them in their entirety or not us them at all. Who are they to discern what is accurate and what is not, and then choose to use what they need to, for arguments against it!!

These are great arguments, I will use them!

Homer, I am aware they deny Jesus dying on the cross, and God putting this other guy who looked like Jesus there instead of him. If I adress this, I will mention things like, Jesus predicting this must happen to him, the O.T. predicting the Messiah must go through these things (Ps.22, Is.53),
and the fact that after this other guy was raised from the dead, he went and fooled all the disciples into thinking Jesus was raised up, so they would go out and preach Christ and him crucified, and yet if it never happend God was giving them a false message???
I obviously cannot use historical evidence, becuase they believe everyone was fooled by this imposter.

I was also thinking of this agrument, maybe i can get some feedback on it.

I thing is, I'm not aware of how much O.T. they agree with, but my argument goes like this;
In the garden of Eden, God said the wages for sin is death, and elsewhere
(maybe deuteronomy?) he says what will happen if you sin. Now in Islam
you just ask Allah for forgiveness and pledge allegiance to Mohammed, and you may be forgiven if its Allah's will.
The problem is that God must adress the issue of sin, and in Islam its not dealt with, it's like saying your guilty for a crime but the judge says thats ok, the crime doesnt need to be justified.

Also, I forget the scripture that says, the remission of sin is blood.
Do they believe in the O.T. where they would offer a lamb sacrifice for sin? If so, why has this changed, if God requires innocent blood for the price of sin, unless Jesus became that sacrifice for the price of sin, how is that your sins can be forgiven in Islam...they don't have a savior?

I will suggest that the God of Christianity is a much higher and holyer God,
our God cannot even be in pressence of one little tiny sin,it is so intollerable that he sent his son to pay the price for it. You must be perfect to please our God,as Jesus was, the God of Islam just wants your good works to out way your bad works.

ok thanks again,

God Bless

[Guest]

Also remember that you don't have to "close the deal" on the first meeting. It could be that God has it in store for you to develop a relationship of mutual respect with this man where you come together and try to understand where the other guy is coming from. It might be a good idea to approach it as an inquisitive exchange without pressure of converting someone. I've heard more than a few testimonies that began this way.

I've had a muslim friend (non-practicing) for a number of years now and I have cherished the few conversations that we have been able to have about these things. In fact, this thread reminds me that I haven't called him in quite some time and I think it's about time I did. Thanks for bringing it up. Sometimes God works very slowly from our point of view. But His timing is perfect.

[Guest]

Jason,

You might want to look at www.ijfm.org, then search for the article "Gospel Communication from Within" by Patrick Cate, as well as some other material there.

Most of the suggestions above are really good points, but in isolation might be more argumentative than convincing. There are Muslim answers for most of them, of which your Muslim friend might be acquainted if he is well versed in these matters. The main thing is to be respectful and try to find out what he believes. For example, their idea of Scripture is an exact copy of something dictated by God (Allah) to Mohammed, and they believe they have the exact copy. So, unless they've studied it, they might think the Christian Bible is supposed to be the same sort of thing, perhaps a list of exact sayings of Jesus; but then obviously it is inferior since we do not have the exact Greek text (or worse yet, the exact Aramaic words of Jesus). Also, the idea of God having a son is very confusing to them, and also very offensive since they take the idea literally. You may need to clear that up before getting very far with him.

Anyway, each person is different, so listen carefully. The article mentioned above has some good ideas.

Tychicus

[Guest]

Also, I forget the scripture that says, the remission of sin is blood.
Do they believe in the O.T. where they would offer a lamb sacrifice for sin? If so, why has this changed, if God requires innocent blood for the price of sin, unless Jesus became that sacrifice for the price of sin, how is that your sins can be forgiven in Islam...they don't have a savior?


I think the verse is Leviticus 17.11 but i think they may still believe in animal sacrifices, because i've seen on TV it's still done in Morocco. I agree with what Chris said about not trying to close the deal since thoughtful people take a long time to change their minds. It's probably just better to try and plant seeds.

[Guest]

I would like to know why the Shite and Suni Muslums of Iraq prayed about fear and natural disasters in their mosques reguarding the solar eclipse. This natural ocourance has been going on for some time. Are the clerics so uninformed about God/Alahs creation that they have to fear his celestual creation. I mean that while the rest of the world knows what is happening they fear. Fear has a driving force, ignorance.