Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
So I was watching an episode of Agatha Christie's Poirot (with David Suchet- excellent series by the way) and a character made an observation regarding Luke 14:23:
"And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled."
The character in the show made the comment that the Greek word for "compel" really meant "compel by force." The character went on to state that this translation of this verse was the basis for the atrocities of the Spanish Inquisition (i.e. better to compel converts by force, i.e torture, than lose them to eternal torment).
So I have two questions for you scholars out there:
1) Is that the correct Greek translation of the word "compel" in that verse, and
2) Was that really the "go to" verse for the Spanish Inquisition?
TK
"And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled."
The character in the show made the comment that the Greek word for "compel" really meant "compel by force." The character went on to state that this translation of this verse was the basis for the atrocities of the Spanish Inquisition (i.e. better to compel converts by force, i.e torture, than lose them to eternal torment).
So I have two questions for you scholars out there:
1) Is that the correct Greek translation of the word "compel" in that verse, and
2) Was that really the "go to" verse for the Spanish Inquisition?
TK
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
Hi TK,
I'm not sure about the nuances of the word, but I believe that Augustine used this verse to support the notion of forced conversion. Of course, it wouldn't matter if it did mean force in that sense, as the rest of the NT would be against that concept, and it is, after all, a parable only.
Regards, Brenden.
I'm not sure about the nuances of the word, but I believe that Augustine used this verse to support the notion of forced conversion. Of course, it wouldn't matter if it did mean force in that sense, as the rest of the NT would be against that concept, and it is, after all, a parable only.
Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]
- backwoodsman
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:32 am
- Location: Not quite at the ends of the earth, but you can see it from here.
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
Thayer says:
315 αναγκαζω anagkazo an-ang-kad'-zo
AV-compel, constrain
1) to necessitate, compel, drive to, constrain
1a) by force, threats, etc.
1b) by permission, entreaties, etc.
1c) by other means
So it appears force is a possible meaning, but I agree with Brenden about that.
All but one of the other NT uses of the word clearly don't mean by force. The possible exception is Acts 26:11, in Paul's description of what he did to Christians before his conversion -- an interesting parallel to what the Catholic church did to Christians for 1000 years, on the authority of Augustine's interpretation. One more reason to wonder why men like Augustine, who almost singlehandedly turned Christianity on its head, are respected as theologians by Christians.
315 αναγκαζω anagkazo an-ang-kad'-zo
AV-compel, constrain
1) to necessitate, compel, drive to, constrain
1a) by force, threats, etc.
1b) by permission, entreaties, etc.
1c) by other means
So it appears force is a possible meaning, but I agree with Brenden about that.
All but one of the other NT uses of the word clearly don't mean by force. The possible exception is Acts 26:11, in Paul's description of what he did to Christians before his conversion -- an interesting parallel to what the Catholic church did to Christians for 1000 years, on the authority of Augustine's interpretation. One more reason to wonder why men like Augustine, who almost singlehandedly turned Christianity on its head, are respected as theologians by Christians.
-
- Posts: 903
- Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:46 pm
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
I'm not a scholar or expert, but in Dec 2014 I listened to a "Modern Scholar" lecture series about the history of the inquisitions in general. (Check your local library for those.)
1) I don't recall any reference to that parable as a Biblical justification for anything. I may have forgotten a lot from the 5-7 CDs, but I think I would remember that.
2) As I understand it, the inquisitions (i.e., the members of those councils or bodies, Spanish or otherwise) were not meant to force or compel non-Christians to convert to Christianity. They were meant, as they saw it, to protect orthodoxy by weeding out heretics and false Christians from among the Church.
That's not to say that forced "conversions" never happened around that time, or that nobody ever used that passage as justification, but my hunch is that someone made up the Spanish Inquisition connection.
1) I don't recall any reference to that parable as a Biblical justification for anything. I may have forgotten a lot from the 5-7 CDs, but I think I would remember that.
2) As I understand it, the inquisitions (i.e., the members of those councils or bodies, Spanish or otherwise) were not meant to force or compel non-Christians to convert to Christianity. They were meant, as they saw it, to protect orthodoxy by weeding out heretics and false Christians from among the Church.
That's not to say that forced "conversions" never happened around that time, or that nobody ever used that passage as justification, but my hunch is that someone made up the Spanish Inquisition connection.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
Backwoodsman quoted Thayer's definitions of the word. I checked several other lexicons, and they give similar definitions.
One of the best ways to understand a word is to see how it is used in various contexts. Here is a list of all instances of the word in the New Testament (New King James Version):
Matthew 14:22 Immediately Jesus made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, while He sent the multitudes away.
Mark 6:45 Immediately He made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, to Bethsaida, while He sent the multitude away.
Luke 14:23 "Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Acts 26:11 "And I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities.
Acts 28:19 "But when the Jews spoke against it, I was compelled to appeal to Caesar, not that I had anything of which to accuse my nation.
2 Corinthians 12:11 I have become a fool in boasting; you have compelled me. For I ought to have been commended by you; for in nothing was I behind the most eminent apostles, though I am nothing.
Galatians 2:3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
So we see that in each case some sort of force was applied to get someone to do something. But it wasn't always a violent force, or the kind of force that couldn't be resisted.
One of the best ways to understand a word is to see how it is used in various contexts. Here is a list of all instances of the word in the New Testament (New King James Version):
Matthew 14:22 Immediately Jesus made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, while He sent the multitudes away.
Mark 6:45 Immediately He made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, to Bethsaida, while He sent the multitude away.
Luke 14:23 "Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Acts 26:11 "And I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities.
Acts 28:19 "But when the Jews spoke against it, I was compelled to appeal to Caesar, not that I had anything of which to accuse my nation.
2 Corinthians 12:11 I have become a fool in boasting; you have compelled me. For I ought to have been commended by you; for in nothing was I behind the most eminent apostles, though I am nothing.
Galatians 2:3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
So we see that in each case some sort of force was applied to get someone to do something. But it wasn't always a violent force, or the kind of force that couldn't be resisted.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
TK wrote:
And Brenden replied:The character in the show made the comment that the Greek word for "compel" really meant "compel by force." The character went on to state that this translation of this verse was the basis for the atrocities of the Spanish Inquisition (i.e. better to compel converts by force, i.e torture, than lose them to eternal torment).
Well, well. Why be hard on Augustine about forced conversions if God uses hell to convert people after death? Seems a bit inconsistent there.I'm not sure about the nuances of the word, but I believe that Augustine used this verse to support the notion of forced conversion. Of course, it wouldn't matter if it did mean force in that sense, as the rest of the NT would be against that concept, and it is, after all, a parable only.
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
Hi Homer,
You must have me confused with someone else. I remain on the fence with respects the notion of a "purgatory"-like post-mortem chastisement. Perhaps this is best handled by Paidion?
Regards, Brenden.
You must have me confused with someone else. I remain on the fence with respects the notion of a "purgatory"-like post-mortem chastisement. Perhaps this is best handled by Paidion?
Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
The quote is yours Brenden, but perhaps I am better suited to be the recipient of Homer's mild rebuke.
I know I wrote in the past about people spending millions of years in hell. I am no longer certain that that is the case.
Homer, I recall your past comments with regards my belief that God will use hell to convert people. I do not see hell as retributive in any way, but restorative. Nor do I see the conversions that will take place there as "forced conversions." When God works in peoples' hearts here on earth, or even gives them unpleasant experiences which result in conversion, do you see that as forced conversion? God Himself, or perhaps his Son, will try to directly influence people in hell, just as Jesus did here on earth. Perhaps even the mature sons of God of whom Paul speaks, will be sent there to proclaim the good news to them. That's what God's people are doing here on earth. Any unpleasantness that will be undergone in hell, will be no more than is absolutely necessary.Homer wrote: Well, well. Why be hard on Augustine about forced conversions if God uses hell to convert people after death? Seems a bit inconsistent there.
I know I wrote in the past about people spending millions of years in hell. I am no longer certain that that is the case.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
Hi Paidion,
So if you "take the hell out of hell", what would make you confident that every last one would repent?
So if you "take the hell out of hell", what would make you confident that every last one would repent?
Re: Lk. 14:23 and the Spanish Inquisition
Time extending infinitely into the future, coupled with the actions of the One who is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance. (2 Peter 2:9). That One, is able to do what it takes to bring about the fulfillment of his will. He who is the personification of LOVE, will not cease in influencing them until they freely choose to repent, and serve Him. Some of those influences my be painful, but He will administer only as much of that as is absolutely necessary.So if you "take the hell out of hell", what would make you confident that every last one would repent?
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.