Does God really sound like that?

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morbo3000
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Does God really sound like that?

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:59 pm

This is probably just a rant.. though it can be a discussion.

We attend a charismatic church. My hope is that if God is real, He is still doing miracles.. healings, prophecies.. that kind of stuff. I also know that if you are going to be open to the Holy Spirit in your service, it's going to be messy. Lots of discernment when people are testifying, etc. And leaders who don't let people go on personal tirades.

That being said.. why can't God sound normal?

<tone> "...the Lord would say unto his people..."

People don't talk like that. I see that on the board here from time to time. Do these people talk this way around the water cooler at work?

I can't imagine God talks that way either.
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Re: Does God really sound like that?

Post by dwilkins » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:34 pm

I happened upon your post here while I was surfing around reading, among other things, the blog at the link below:

http://nearemmaus.com/2013/03/27/centra ... es-part-2/

I'll post the part of it that I think comes close to your point:

"John Strong (Missouri State)—“Censoring the Prophetic Word: Translating Ezekiel’s Profane Speech for General Audiences”

In what was probably the most thought-provoking paper presented at the conference this year (at least among the presentations I attended), Dr. Strong spoke on Ezekiel’s use of profanity in his diatribes against the Jerusalemites, and the tendency by contemporary Western translators to defang the prophet’s speech when bringing the text to life in English. For instance, the word Ezekiel uses to characterize the idols worshiped by the Israelites (gililim, if I heard correctly—I haven’t studied Hebrew yet), comes from the root word meaning “dung,” and a more literal translation might be that Ezekiel is referring to the idols as “shit-gods.” Strong went on to point out the various and numerous sexual innuendos and downright vulgar tirades scattered throughout the book, and noted that Ezekiel primarily uses this obscenity as a rhetorical form of “controlled rage” to shame the Israelites. Strong ended with two pertinent questions: 1) Can we retain the spirit of Ezekiel’s crude edginess in modern English translations of the scripture? Or perhaps the better question is 2) Even if we could, should we? In short, Strong answered, no. Ezekiel worked within a totally different context than our own, never expecting his text/speech to be read by general audiences, let alone general audiences in the 21st century. In sum, Strong concluded that any translation must neuter the experience intended by the prophet himself. Consequently, I found myself wondering if the same is true of coarseness in the New Testament—for instance, should English texts of Philippians 3:8 include the literal translation of “σκύβαλα”?"

I doubt that such language would be the way that we'd normally communicate (just like the overly pious language you described seems odd). But, The point made above is that sometimes in prophetic talk (which I expect is part of the content of a charismatic service) such language does come into play. And, to answer the question at the end of the quoted section, the term in Philippians is "dung" (and possibly a less archaic version it). In the written word I disagree with the professor cited who thinks the text should be sterilized. But, the question is how sterile normal speech should be.

Doug

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Re: Does God really sound like that?

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:51 pm

Thanks Doug. That was good.

I'm trying to be open but discerning, without being cynical. And I don't want to be distracted by style and miss the substance.

But oh... How it is hard sometimes.

One thing I've noticed is that "god" seems to say what people want to hear.

I'm a (former) pastor who has been burned badly, and basically on hold in recovery mode from ministry. We are in a prophetic church, and in a spiritual retreat setting the pastor exhorted that god isn't through with me as a pastor. That is of course encouraging. But... It's what I want to hear. I wonder if anyone is told by god, "well... That really doesn't seem to be your gift and you have a lot of repented sin," or whatever.

Like I said though... If you are going to be open to the holy spirits work in your life/church, it's going to be messy.
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Re: Does God really sound like that?

Post by Homer » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:00 pm

Like I said though... If you are going to be open to the holy spirits work in your life/church, it's going to be messy
.

I do not understand why that would be so. Was not Paul speaking under the inspiration of that same Spirit when he wrote:

1 Corinthians 14:33,40 New King James Version (NKJV)
33. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
40. Let all things be done decently and in order.

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Re: Does God really sound like that?

Post by Paidion » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:16 pm

I can't imagine God talks that way either.
Someone told me about an older German-speaking woman he knew who insisted that God spoke German.

"Why do you think that?" he asked her.

"It's right here in my Bible! Genesis 3:9. The LORD said to Adam, 'Vo bist du?' "
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Re: Does God really sound like that?

Post by dwilkins » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:23 pm

I think I'd take the line that things are messy to mean that it's naturally uncomfortable when God challenges us.

Just in case anyone is wondering, I'm not advocating running around church using profanity. I'm saying that when the OT prophets are telling their apostate fellow Israelites that their righteousness is as filthy rags he is actually saying that their righteousness is as bloody, used menstrual cloths. It's more penetrating to use the stronger language and I think God meant it that way to get it into their thick heads that they have a problem they need to deal with.

Doug

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Re: Does God really sound like that?

Post by morbo3000 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:05 am

dwilkins wrote:Just in case anyone is wondering, I'm not advocating running around church using profanity.
Oh piss off.

:D

(I've been dying to use that joke since you posted about the "profanity" in the prophetic book.)
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Re: Does God really sound like that?

Post by morbo3000 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:12 am

Homer wrote:
Like I said though... If you are going to be open to the holy spirits work in your life/church, it's going to be messy
.

I do not understand why that would be so. Was not Paul speaking under the inspiration of that same Spirit when he wrote:

1 Corinthians 14:33,40 New King James Version (NKJV)
33. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
40. Let all things be done decently and in order.
We have great pastors and a great "system" for keeping things in order. One of the best is that if you are new, or not of reputation yet, if the pastor trusts you enough, he'll let you share, but he holds the mic in case you go off the rails.. when you've been around awhile and are a known commodity, he hands you the mic.

By messy I mean that regardless of whatever safeguards you have, there will be people who say silly things. If you believe in tongues, or whatever, things might get a little ecstatic.. someone might fall on the floor.. it might be genuine, it might be too much coffee. Good pastoral leadership provides a healthy environment for gifts to be ministered, and then also provides gentle (or not) boundaries when needed. If they were too tight, there wouldn't be any freedom. But without some boundaries, things go nuts.

Messy in the way that my table gets cluttered when I'm studying. Toys get drug out when the kids are playing. I think there is a verse in the old testament about where there are cows, there's going to be mess. Living things kick up the dirt. It's just important that you clean up afterwards.

Make sense?
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Re: Does God really sound like that?

Post by JamesFrench » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:40 pm

The holy spirit (gift of God) communicates to humans in the various means of revelation, tongues with interpretation and prophesy, dreams and visions.
But as you can see in the written word, different prophets, though all moved by the holy spirit, speak according to their manner and vocabulary, education.
Amos was a herder if I remember correctly, not educated like Paul the Apostle.

If one reads the KJV a lot, it becomes part of your vocabulary, old ways of speaking, which can be expressed in interpretations or prophecies. On the other hand some could be moved to speak in a more modern sounding manner, or even with local Southern or local expressions such as "I hollered and hollered, yet you would not listen," for example.

The holy spirit often speaks through the vocabulary and manner of the person. If someone speaks slowly, they might bring a message spoken slowly, etc.
God communicates in a manner that the person can receive it, though sometimes it can be mysterious and takes time to interpret the meaning, as in visual revelation. What does it have to do with the situation etc. In Old Testament dreams were interpreted such as Daniel the prophet etc. God can still communicate in dreams.

Prophets are supposed to judge what is said that it flows with scripture etc. Whatever is received should be accurate with the Bible, profitable (to profit withal), is edifying, exhortation, comfort, is decent and in order, spoken in love as the motivator. Now, often in the Old Testament or in the New God's expressions can be shocking such as in Old Testament judgment...There will be none left to pisseth against the wall." meaning no men, which in Eastern culture and ours, it is important that the family line be continued etc., and in New Testament when Paul said regarding those that were putting pressure on Christians to be circumcised that he "wished they were cut off." This may have a double meaning, as in reference to both their spiritual judgment and reference to their male organs?

We see in the scriptures reference to their current culture and manners, names, Titles, manner of speaking etc. A person with a heavy New York Bronx accent would speak in interpretation with that accent and their way of talking. God works in the individual, and with the individual, not in a cookie cutter manner, but yet still in accordance with His will and what He wants spoken or communicated in various ways (spoken, written, dreams, vision, revelations, inspired utterance etc.).

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