Praying for the Devil

Angels & Demons
User avatar
TK
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Praying for the Devil

Post by TK » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:14 pm

Our daughter was trying to explain to our 5 year old granddaughter, Avery, that not everyone loves Jesus. Avery, was asking why this was; i.e. why would anyone not love Jesus? and her mom said that as she gets older she will come to see this more and more, and that the devil lies to people and tells them they don't need Jesus.

Then Avery said "You know what? I am going to pray for the devil so that he will stop doing that."

When I heard this story, her comment caught me off guard because I dont think I have ever heard anyone suggest that we should pray for Satan.

Should we?

TK

User avatar
mattrose
Posts: 1909
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:28 am
Contact:

Re: Praying for the Devil

Post by mattrose » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:31 pm

The worst thing it could do is waste time

The best thing it could do is save the devil

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Praying for the Devil

Post by TK » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:37 pm

That's pretty much the same conclusion I reached, Matt.

TK

User avatar
steve
Posts: 3340
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:45 pm

Re: Praying for the Devil

Post by steve » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:05 pm

True. And there is a third option: It may, in some measure, inhibit the devil's ability to deceive others. The devil can often be restrained by prayer (Dan.10/Mark 9:29).

User avatar
remade
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:53 pm
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Re: Praying for the Devil

Post by remade » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:55 pm

I would merely quote Jesus's personal character reference to Satan:
44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. ESV

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. NIV

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. NKJV
Furthermore, the John the Evangelist states:
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. NKJV (I JOHN 3:8)
I see the two points of logic, but it seems to me that the Bible makes it clear that Satan is an embodiment, a manifestation, a pure personification of evil. In the Christian there should not be a hatred, or dehumanization of any person (Matthew 5:21-26), but we are told to hate what is evil (Rom 12:9), to see the devil as a roaring, devouring lion that we are to resist and flee from (1 Peter 5:8-9; James 4:7), and is someone particularly Jesus never offered repentance to, but always an emphatic command to leave (Matt 4:10; 16:23).

Lastly, I should say that Hebrews makes it clear that Jesus died for the sins of man, not for the angels. Consider Hebrews 2:
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
In my mind, Biblically speaking, it seems to be a waste of time, and maybe an open door to dwell to much on an entity that isn't human, and has made his mind up. Who are we to understand the mind of a fallen angel such as Satan?
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
- II CORINTHIANS 5:21 ESV

User avatar
dizerner
Posts: 1221
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:43 pm

Re: Praying for the Devil

Post by dizerner » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:13 pm

remade wrote:In my mind, Biblically speaking, it seems to be a waste of time, and maybe an open door to dwell to much on an entity that isn't human, and has made his mind up. Who are we to understand the mind of a fallen angel such as Satan?
One would have to reject the inspiration of Scripture to pray for Satan. His end is already decreed and written in Revelation.

There is a sin that leads to death, I do not say one should pray for that sin — 1 Jo. 5

Do not be too quick in the laying on of hands and thereby share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. 1 Tim 5:22

The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. - 1 Jo 3

Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in your faith - 1 Pet.

And the great dragon was hurled down — the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
— Rev


And perhaps listening to this song while reading this little fable might put us back in our right mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLjK-LfYEY

The Scorpion and the Frog
One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.

The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.

Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 4911
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Praying for the Devil

Post by Paidion » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:26 pm

Origen (185-254 A.D.) wrote:When it is said that "the last enemy" shall be destroyed, it is not to be understood as meaning that his substance, which is God's creation, perishes, but that his purpose and hostile will perishes; for this does not come from God but from himself. Therefore his destruction means not his ceasing to exist, but ceasing to be an enemy and ceasing to be death. Nothing is impossible to omnipotence; there is nothing that cannot be healed by its Maker.
—De Principiis III. vi.5

The restoration to unity must not be imagined as a sudden happening. Rather it is to be thought of as gradually effected by stages during the passing of countless ages. Little by little and individually the correction and purification will be accomplished. Some will lead the way and climb to the heights with swifter progress, others following right behind them; yet others will be far behind. Thus multitudes of individuals and countless orders, who once were enemies, will advance and reconcile themselves to God; and so at length the last enemy will be reached... —De Principiis III.vi.6

...God acts in dealing with sinners as a physician...the fury of his anger is profitable for the purging of souls. Even that penalty which is said to be imposed by way of fire is understood as applied to assist a sinner to health... —De Principiis II.x.6
Who is that "last enemy" who will be reached, if not Satan?
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 81.

User avatar
jaydam
Posts: 343
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:29 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Praying for the Devil

Post by jaydam » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:39 pm

If Satan was made as he was from the beginning. Isn't praying for him to be other than his makeup much like praying for a dog to no longer be a dog?

It would seem a futile effort in that case, and time might be better spent talking about the purpose of God intentionally creating Satan than praying for him to not be who he is.

Just my thoughts that struck me when I read this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

steve7150
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:44 am

Re: Praying for the Devil

Post by steve7150 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:57 am

If Satan was made as he was from the beginning. Isn't praying for him to be other than his makeup much like praying for a dog to no longer be a dog?







If Satan was made as he was/is from the beginning then God made a sin/lying/murdering/destroying entity from the beginning and as Jesus said "a house divided can not stand", plus God created something contrary to his character if Satan was meant to destroy from the beginning? Can God create an evil entity?
The OT makes it sound like Satan was a servant of God but the NT makes it sound like Satan's freewill was the motivator.

User avatar
remade
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:53 pm
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Re: Praying for the Devil

Post by remade » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:27 am

If Satan was made as he was/is from the beginning then God made a sin/lying/murdering/destroying entity from the beginning and as Jesus said "a house divided can not stand", plus God created something contrary to his character if Satan was meant to destroy from the beginning? Can God create an evil entity?
The OT makes it sound like Satan was a servant of God but the NT makes it sound like Satan's freewill was the motivator.
Is it possible that
(A) the angels had free-will to begin with, in which Lucifer obviously acted on freewill and allowed sin to entirely engulf his character
(B) God rescinded free-will from the angelic race of beings, after seeing what Satan and his demons did.

I get this idea from the book of Hebrews.

In comparing Jesus to the angels, the author states:
4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,

“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God's angels worship him.”
7 Of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Perhaps most interesting, it the verse in Jude that seems to express one free-will option that led to the eternal state of demonic existence; Jude 1:6
6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—


As I expressed earlier... I think we may err to try and put on human understandings of free will, repentance and so forth to beings that we do not completely understand. What we do know is that Jesus died solely for the atonement of the sins of people (See previous post, Heb 2:14-16). This in my mind, does a few things

(1) Angels and demons though some may be elect (1 Timothy 5:21), Jude supposes that their decision concerning their allegiance to God is past.
(2) It seems really clear that Satan and his demonic forces, like the elect angels who are procured forever, are eternally dark and destined solely for damnation.
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
- II CORINTHIANS 5:21 ESV

Post Reply

Return to “Angelology & Demonology”