Rob Bell: Universalist?

[Perry]

... I personally lean more toward the conditional immortality view myself...

So do I. I find UR to be a tempting view, but not one that I cam embrace without reservation at this time. Indeed, I can't even embrace conditional immortality without reservation... but, like you, it is the direction I'm leaning these days.

[TK]

Perry wrote:

I find UR to be a tempting view, but not one that I cam embrace without reservation at this time. Indeed, I can't even embrace conditional immortality without reservation... but, like you, it is the direction I'm leaning these days.

ditto. If UR is true-- awesome. I am just not convinced enough to go to bat for it. this may of course change some day.

TK

[Perry]

...it would seem to me a "good" thing to damage this special glee even if ET is correct (and especially if it is not)...

This reminds me of a quote I once heard from self-help-guru Jim Rohn... (paraphrasing)

"I don't mind the preacher man telling me I'm going to burn in hell if I don't change my evil ways... as long as he's weeping when he does so."

As far as I know, there's no view of hell that should ever make believers anything other than sorrowful at the prospect that anyone would go there.

[darinhouston]

As far as I know, there's no view of hell that should ever make believers anything other than sorrowful at the prospect that anyone would go there.

Amen!

[RickC]

'Looks like Bell's new book is making lots of web 'headlines', etc.

I watched the vid, haven't read the book, and am not very familiar with Rob Bell.
Rob Bell's New Book Gets Judged Before Most Read It
From the above article, it seems like Bell might 'lean' toward Conditional Immortality, if this isn't what he actually believes (as one commented he may, since Greg Boyd endorsed the book, and believes in CI). Rob Bell may also be some type of Inclusivist(?).

I don't plan on getting the book.
Can't afford it for one thing.
For another, the more I study, the more I'm convinced of CI.
I don't believe the Bible 'addresses' Inclusivism (but never mind that, plz, LOL)....

Rob Bell's book is probably worth a read, though, for folks who are 'new' to finding out what they think on all this stuff. I'm somewhat of a 'Boyd Fan'<--why I say that!

[TK]

Hi Rick-

I know that Greg Boyd wrote an essay that discussed CI and he seemed to be sympathetic toward that view, but I seem to remember he indicated he was non-commital at that point. I am just wondering if he has in fact now gone all the way to embrace CI.

TK

[Perry]

So last night, without preamble, I showed the Rob Bell, "Love Wins" video (see OP for link) to my wife. I wanted to get an unvarnished reaction. I should say that, like me, she leans heavily in the CI camp.

She liked the video, and told me a story about a friend of hers who's mother had committed suicide. So here's this young lady grieving for a mother who has committed suicide, when someone comes up to her and says, "You know you're mother is burning in hell right now. All suicides go to hell." Such anectdotes prove nothing theologically, of course, any more than the reference to Ghandi in the video.

We started looking at other Rob Bell videos (he has a whole series of "nooma" videos). We both quickly found them to be too "performancy" for our tastes, but wondered if a younger generation might respond more favorably to them. "He needs bongos" my wife said at one point. I didn't see much to criticize theologically in the videos we saw but we only looked at a few. He seems to have a lot of media for sale. Indeed the video in the OP can be thought of as a commercial for the upcoming book. There's probably not much wrong with that per-se... just seems a bit crass in the commercialization.

[RickC]

Hi Rick-

I know that Greg Boyd wrote an essay that discussed CI and he seemed to be sympathetic toward that view, but I seem to remember he indicated he was non-commital at that point. I am just wondering if he has in fact now gone all the way to embrace CI.

Check out Greg's Jan 2009 sermon: Tormented by the Flames? (45 mins, part one of two).

Apparently, Greg was doing a 'through the Bible' type teaching series. In part one of 'Lazarus and the Rich Man', Greg gives his view about Hell, as well as asking many of the questions we all ask (if we've thought about Hell, that is). He calls it "my view", without naming it Conditional Immortality. You'll see: This is clearly his view.

While I don't agree with some of his interpretations in minor ways, (such as 'gehenna being a dump outside of Jerusalem', which isn't historically verifiable, and 'our' works being burned as 'wood, hay, stubble'<--which refers to the Apostles' evangelical work, imo); Boyd covers the basics of the CI view very well otherwise. (This vid would serve as an excellent Intro to CI - especially as contrasted with ECT, 'eternal conscious torment').

Since I'm mostly convinced about CI, (though I certainly don't have every 'riddle' about Hell solved), I'm hoping Rob Bell's book will at least serve to get folks to look into CI. Also, in surveying the 'current controversy' on the blogosphere, I'm seeing that people who have known Rob Bell and/or his 'theology' are saying that Bell probably believes in either some type of CI or a less specific view like N.T. Wright's. I doubt Bell's a Universalist, going by what I'm hearing.

In the sermon, Greg talks about God being a 'Consuming Fire' and how, in His Love, He has begun the process in us (believers) of burning away those things that aren't like Him. But also how, by that very same Love, He will destroy those who will have refused Him/His Love during their lifetimes. (Just watch Greg - he packs in a *LOT* of thought)!!!

Thanks

[TK]

Perry wrote:

We started looking at other Rob Bell videos (he has a whole series of "nooma" videos).

I really havent seen much of Rob Bell but i REALLY liked his "Everything is Spiritual" video. I thought that was incredibly well done.

Rick-- Thanks for the clarification.

TK

[RickC]

TK - You're welcome,

Other General Comments
I'm a fast Googler and blog-hopper (I got Greg Boyd's video from a blog related to this whole controversy). What controversy? It's not so much 'Three Views of Hell' as it is people judging Rob Bell before his book has been released. 'Famous' bloggers are in on this controversy, like Justin Taylor. I don't have 'the best' opinion of him, as he had some disparaging remarks about Clark Pinnock, just after Clark died (it was really bad timing, and quite rude). Taylor is a notorious 'strong Calvinist' too, which, nothing necessarily wrong with that. It's how you 'carry yourself' and come across. I'll say one good thing about Taylor. He had an excellent post on What N.T. Wright Really Said - at ETS last Nov. Coming from a Calvinist blogger, this was an exception to the rule, and quite commendable.

'Not sure how much any of you (here) are following this whole scenario. But 'famous theologians' are chiming-in-on-it: John Piper, Scot McKnight, and Roger Olson, to name a few I've seen.

What I'm Hoping
That Rob Bell will wait-it-out and not become reactionary, getting involved in 'The Evangelical Wars'. I'm also hopeful that Bell holds to CI, as it sounds he does. With all of these 'famous' people getting worked-up (or whatever), my hope is the CI view will become better known. It's readily apparent that some of 'Rob Bell's opponents' probably don't even know what 'Conditional Immortality' is. I'm hoping for a paradigm shift in 'Evangelicalism'. In fact, I think we can see it happening already....

Thanks