Could Jesus Have Saved Himself?

[TK]

Great question Ben.

I know that Paidion has said, and I think I have heard Steve say this as well in one of his lectures, that we, ideally, SHOULD be able to do so.

One, or both of them, made the argument that if we can go one hour w/o sin, perhaps we can go 8 hrs. and if 8 hrs perhaps 24 hrs. and if 24 hrs, perhaps a week, and so on. In other words, it should not be impossible as a theoretical matter. as a practical matter, however, I fear it may be impossible. Nonetheless, that should be our goal.

TK

[benstenson]

Great question Ben.

I know that Paidion has said, and I think I have heard Steve say this as well in one of his lectures, that we, ideally, SHOULD be able to do so.

One, or both of them, made the argument that if we can go one hour w/o sin, perhaps we can go 8 hrs. and if 8 hrs perhaps 24 hrs. and if 24 hrs, perhaps a week, and so on. In other words, it should not be impossible as a theoretical matter. as a practical matter, however, I fear it may be impossible. Nonetheless, that should be our goal.

TK

I've heard that idea. But some people object, saying the ability to always obey God does not logically follow from the ability to temporarily obey God. I think they view free-will kind of like diesel. When your truck runs out, you're stuck in the disobedience lane.

I find that I am unable to have as a goal something I believe is impossible (I figure this is universal). Pleasing God by obeying Him can only be a distant hope for me if I truly think sin is inevitable - but not a rational goal or intention.

In other words, how can I fully reckon myself dead to sin if I fully expect to sin again?

[TK]

benstenson wrote:

In other words, how can I fully reckon myself dead to sin if I fully expect to sin again?

Indeed. I agree.

TK

[benstenson]

benstenson wrote:

In other words, how can I fully reckon myself dead to sin if I fully expect to sin again?

Indeed. I agree.

TK

that's great!

[Jeff]

I do not think that Jesus had the power to remove Himself from the cross, any more than I would if I was crucified today. The angels would have helped him had he called, but he did not. He could not "come down from the cross" as his scorners urged him on his own initiative. He was not a superman-- he was a God-man who gave up all of his God-powers. I.e., in terms of powers inherent in and of himself, he was just a man.
TK

Then how did he walk on water?

[benstenson]

Then how did he walk on water?

How did Peter?

[Paidion]

But then, what exactly did He empty Himself of?

His divine attributes. He retained only His identity.

[TK]

Jeff wrote:

Then how did he walk on water?

I admit this is a tough case. However, my conclusion is that if we were filled with the HS and in a situation where we needed to walk on water and God willed that we do so and we had the faith to do so, that we could also walk on water(as Ben indicated, just like Peter). Jesus walked on water because God told him to do so, he had the faith to do it, and the HS enabled him to do it.

Another tough case is the multiplication of the fish and loaves. However, I have heard of more recent stories of this type of miracle taking place.

Please realize that I am not suggesting that there wasn't anything special about Jesus while he walked this earth. Of course he was special- he was sinless and had perfect unity with the Father, and this opened great realms of possibility for him that quite frankly may not be available to us, at least on a consistent basis like he experienced.

You see, I do not believe that Jesus (while incarnate) was simply "veiling" his Godly attributes but that he occasionally let these attributes "slip out" when he needed them to do miraculous things. Like Paidion said, I think scripture teaches that he emptied himself of these Godly attributes. He was as human as you or I. He wasn't veiling anything; i.e. he wasn't keeping his Godly attributes hidden in his back pocket(so to speak), within reach, "just in case." No, he had nothing in and of himself to turn to. He had to rely on the Father and HS, just like we do. I may not be saying this very well, but perhaps you can catch the gist of what I am saying.

TK

[darinhouston]

I think you said it very well, and it is very encouraging to me.