Is the Resurrection already past?

[TK]

It certainly is a scary thought that the great majority of Christians may have missed something so huge, if FP is true. What a bunch of goofballs, including me.

TK

[Allyn]

Allyn wrote:

Hopefully I can make some headway in yours and others better understanding of the timing as discussed in my thread.

What I think would be helpful is if you comprised a "full preterist" timeline sort of like the dispensationalist do, marking key events, like the rapture, the 2d coming, the resurrection of the dead, the final judgment, etc. I read the wikipedia article on FT and it gave me a decent overview but I would still like to see a timeline.

TK

I will if you would like that. My time is limited but I think this would be worthwhile. However, just a side note - I did give a sort of time on the other thread but it was not supported so I will maybe use that or else do it another way.

[Allyn]

It certainly is a scary thought that the great majority of Christians may have missed something so huge, if FP is true. What a bunch of goofballs, including me.

TK

TK,
No disrespect intended but are you one who would rather have the Bible explained to you or do you spend the time to do it for yourself? I ask this because most Christians today need teachers who have already done the work or have gone to seminary to preach the doctrine those seminaries hold to.

[TK]

Well, I do read the Bible for myself and I never came close to any set of beliefs consistent with FP. No one I know personally is a FP. And I just don't see it. I have read many many posts on the topic at this forum and I STILL dont see it. Not that I don't see how a person might belive FP is true- it's just that I don't agree.

TK

[TK]

Allyn-


I still havent rec'd a satisfactory answer from you as to why you believe FP is so important. (Please dont say "because that is what the Bible teaches").

What I am looking for is how it makes a difference to us as a PRACTICAL matter. In other words, if I were to fully embrace FP today, and had a perfect understanding of it, how would my Christian walk differ tomorrow?

It seems to me (and it is maybe just an impression- and please dont take offense) that since FPs are so in the minority that they feel they must convert the rest of us to their way of thinking. But i don't quite get that. For example, I am an old-earth creationist, which I presume is a very minority position in evangelical circles. However, I do not feel compelled to convert young earthers. I could care less. Heck - I might even be wrong. See what I mean?

TK

[RV]

Hey TK...

I won't answer for Allyn, but just a couple of thoughts.

When I was a futurist, I lived my life (for the most part) as if time was short. I put off education and many things because I thought, this world was just going to burn any minute. I really did believe it!

So... in practical matters, it should change the way you live your life.

If you really truely believe (not saying you), this world is going to end any moment, you should live your life like that.

I think it does change the way people live.

My best example is above.

Just a couple of thoughts.

RV

[Allyn]

Allyn-


I still havent rec'd a satisfactory answer from you as to why you believe FP is so important. (Please dont say "because that is what the Bible teaches").

What I am looking for is how it makes a difference to us as a PRACTICAL matter. In other words, if I were to fully embrace FP today, and had a perfect understanding of it, how would my Christian walk differ tomorrow?

It seems to me (and it is maybe just an impression- and please dont take offense) that since FPs are so in the minority that they feel they must convert the rest of us to their way of thinking. But i don't quite get that. For example, I am an old-earth creationist, which I presume is a very minority position in evangelical circles. However, I do not feel compelled to convert young earthers. I could care less. Heck - I might even be wrong. See what I mean?

TK

TK,
Are you saying that I didn't answer or you just didn't like my answer? - because I did answer and I never said it and I didn't even remotely say what you are suggesting. Could you clear that up for me.

No, I am not trying to convert anyone. TK, it really makes me wonder if you have read anything I have written in the other thread. I know you have been there because you have asked these same questions over there. If you don't want to read what I write then that's ok with me but I think I am repeating myself now.
No offense taken.

[Mellontes]

In other words, if I were to fully embrace FP today, and had a perfect understanding of it, how would my Christian walk differ tomorrow?

An old earth person, huh? Cool... I personally believe the Bible gives us no information one way or the other on that topic because the Bible is a book of redemption.

I think a person's walk would differ according to the present theology he or she now adheres to. Premillennialists would have the greatest difficulty adjusting, especially the dispensational ones. I don't know how travelled you are in Internet chat circles, but most of the dispensationalists that I have run across post topics on the signs of Matthew 24 in the eschatology sections. For instance, the earthquake that was experienced near the Ontario-Quebec border yesterday June 23rd is a topic that would be posted with the idea that the end of the world is at hand. There are lots of those kinds of posts. To me, if every tornado, flood, war, and earthquake was a reminder that it all was coming to an end, it would make me nervous. All my loved ones who had not come into a covenant relationship with God would suffer a horrible fate - first for at least 3 1/2 years then afterwards (or so the saying goes). I know of people who have quit their jobs because of date predictions. Every prediction has been wrong and will continue to be wrong. It is very depressing for teenagers who hold to dispensational soon-to-end eschatology. Why plan for college? Why save for retirement if you TRULY believe your eschatology?

Again for dispensationalists, it is the Israel thingy. Millions upon millions are spent in support of that Christ-hating nation. American politics are heavily related to Israel. Thousands of hours are wasted in promoting and supporting Israel , both Christian and nonchristian. People are getting their theology (eschatology) out of newspapers. That is not the place to get it from.

Take for instance the many interpretatins of the mark of the beast. Todays present interpretation (and I say today because each generation seems to have a different one based on the technology of the day) is computer related (barcodes, implants, etc.). Do we really believe those living in the year 1492 had the same interpretation? How is it possible that the intended audience (those 7 first century churches) could understand such an interpretation. If we believe that each new generation brings to the table "extra" information, then we believe in a continuing and non-stop revelation. That is severely wrong.

It is time we heard from the non-fullprets. I would like an answer to this question. It will reveal how you exegete Scripture.

If Revelation 22:10 was read in your fellowship, would you think the time was at hand? Or would you have thought something like this?:

"John is not writing to me at all. What he said has nothing to do with me or my situation. He must be talking to those believers who are 2,000 years removed from us." All futurists are forced to believe the latter or their paradigm disintegrates.

If we are not willing to attempt to understand what it meant for the original audience before we can see if application can be made to us, then we have lost all proper exegesis. What gets me is the fact that ONLY in eschatology is the relevancy of the original audience totally ignored. "At hand" means at hand in every branch of theology EXCEPT for eschatology. What's up with that?

Please put your sandals on and try to answer my question...

[Allyn]

Well, I do read the Bible for myself and I never came close to any set of beliefs consistent with FP. No one I know personally is a FP. And I just don't see it. I have read many many posts on the topic at this forum and I STILL dont see it. Not that I don't see how a person might belive FP is true- it's just that I don't agree.

TK

Well maybe we are just an odd lot but thousands and thousands of us have come to the same fulfilled eschatology conclusion independantly with some variations on certain issues.
I personally was on the road to it through Steve Gregg - that is before I learned he does not accept the NT as inspired. His comparrison of Scripture to Scripture was the catalyst and from there I went on to seeing just how dependant the 1st century believers were on what they were taught that all things would be fulfilled in their generation.

You not seeing it that way is fine but we preterists can never be accused rightly of not knowing the Scriptures - in fact I dare say, without wanting to offend, that preterists are probably the most biblically informed people on the planet.

[TK]

RV wrote:

If you really truely believe (not saying you), this world is going to end any moment, you should live your life like that.

I guess I dont really hang with many rabid dispensationalists. It is not a huge topic at the church I attend- in fact in the last 2 churches i have attended i dont think i have heard an eschatology sermon from the pulpit.

While I dont accept FP (at least not yet), i also don't believe the earth is going to end at any moment.-- well -- strike that- I guess it could. But i still live my life like it is a long way off. Why? Because it might be. Why throw all my eggs in the "maybe tomorrow" basket?

I guess my point is, to Allyn and everybody, that regardless of our eschatology views, should we not strive to be the best followers of Christ we can be? I mean, it doesn't matter if His 2nd coming was 2000 years ago or whether it is 2000 years from now. If He tells me to do something, I had better do it, regardless. From what I have read at this forum about FP(yes Allyn- I did read your other post when I asked this question but I told you I really didnt get what you were saying) I dont think embracing it would change anything in the way we should live our Christian lives.

In regards to going to college, making decisions about the future, etc, those should all be guided about what GOD wants us to do, not what WE want to do. Believe me, I am not perfect in this area at all. But our eschatology view really shouldn't have much bearing on how our life looks, IMO.

TK