Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

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RND
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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by RND » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:24 am

Homer wrote:
....since I am not an Israelite.
Not part of the New Covenant Homer?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Which house are you a part of?

Disclaimer: No Christians were harmed in the making of this post (especially the one's that put out pretty calendars)!

BTW, I don't mind you or anyone else poking fun because I'm pointing out what should be obvious. Too me, it's just a shame that modern-day Christianity has such an aversion to the wonders of the Torah. It's fascinating to me how Christianity does all it can to avert it's eyes to the truth regarding it's true roots.

Ah, the fingers in the ear of Christianity saying "La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la." :o
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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Homer
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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by Homer » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:04 pm

RND,
Not part of the New Covenant Homer?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Which house are you a part of?
Uh, I guess neither one. My parents were predominently Anglo-saxon and German, although I'm 1/32 American Indian.

Paul didn't seem to think being an Israelite got you anywhere. I think being part of God's people by birth went out 2000 years ago; I could be off a year or two:

Romans 10:1

1. Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.


I think I'll stick with the name Christian. I have found a precedent for it in the scriptures.

May God bless you in whatever is left of whatever year you go by and your next one too! :D

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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by RND » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:30 pm

Homer wrote:Uh, I guess neither one. My parents were predominently Anglo-saxon and German, although I'm 1/32 American Indian.
What a shame; salvation was only promised to the gentiles by accepting the offer of becoming an Israelite.
Paul didn't seem to think being an Israelite got you anywhere.
Really?

Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
I think being part of God's people by birth went out 2000 years ago; I could be off a year or two:

Romans 10:1

1. Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.
Who is Israel?
I think I'll stick with the name Christian. I have found a precedent for it in the scriptures.
Right. Abraham believed in Christ. Moses believed in Christ. All the prophets. They were "Christians" too!
May God bless you in whatever is left of whatever year you go by and your next one too! :D
Thanks! Happy New Year to you as well!
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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steve
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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by steve » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:31 pm

RND,

You wrote:

"What a shame; salvation was only promised to the gentiles by accepting the offer of becoming an Israelite."


Could you locate that offer for me somewhere in the Bible? I would appreciate having the reference(s) to the passages that make this particular offer in these terms.

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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by RND » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:14 pm

steve wrote:RND,

You wrote:

"What a shame; salvation was only promised to the gentiles by accepting the offer of becoming an Israelite."


Could you locate that offer for me somewhere in the Bible? I would appreciate having the reference(s) to the passages that make this particular offer in these terms.
Sure Steve. See Exodus 12. Specifically, verses 48 and 49. Once the lamb had been accepted and the circumcision complete the stranger was treated as a homeborn Israelite.

Exd 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Stranger's (gentiles) were not allowed near the sanctuary unless they had taken in (accepted) the passover lamb and been circumcised. The same holds true today.

Num 3:38 But those that encamp before the tabernacle toward the east, [even] before the tabernacle of the congregation eastward, [shall be] Moses, and Aaron and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Israel; and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

In order to approach the "throne room of grace" one must accept the Passover lamb and be circumcised (in the heart).

Eze 44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that [is] among the children of Israel.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by steve » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:19 pm

I see no reference to salvation in the texts you mentioned.

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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by RND » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:53 am

steve wrote:I see no reference to salvation in the texts you mentioned.
No reference to "salvation" in the spilling of blood of an innocent lamb to cover the entry point of sin in the tent of the soul? "...sin lieth at the door..."

I suppose I could say the same thing about request to Abraham regarding Issac. The fact that "the Passover" is the exact duplicate of the picture of justification embodied in the life of Christ should come as little surprise to a man as learned in the scriptures as you are Steve.

"The Passover was to be both commemorative and typical, not only pointing back to the deliverance from Egypt, but forward to the greater deliverance which Christ was to accomplish in freeing His people from the bondage of sin. The sacrificial lamb represents "the Lamb of God," in whom is our only hope of salvation. Says the apostle, "Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us." 1 Corinthians 5:7. It was not enough that the paschal lamb be slain; its blood must be sprinkled upon the doorposts; so the merits of Christ's blood must be applied to the soul. We must believe, not only that He died for the world, but that He died for us individually. We must appropriate to ourselves the virtue of the atoning sacrifice." {PP 277.1}

"The flesh was to be eaten. It is not enough even that we believe on Christ for the forgiveness of sin; we must by faith be constantly receiving spiritual strength and nourishment from Him through His word. Said Christ, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life." John 6:53, 54. And to explain His meaning He said, "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." Verse 63. Jesus accepted His Father's law, wrought out its principles in His life, manifested its spirit, and showed its beneficent power in the heart. Says John, "The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14. The followers of Christ must be partakers of His experience. They must receive and assimilate the word of God so that it shall become the motive power of life and action. By the power of Christ they must be changed into His likeness, and reflect the divine attributes. They must eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God, or there is no life in them. The spirit and work of Christ must become the spirit and work of His disciples. {PP 277.4}
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by Homer » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:29 pm

RND,

Is your point that physical Israel foreshadowed the real Israel? I see nothing in your last copy and paste of EGW that would support the idea that I need to become a Jew. Maybe I missed it? Perhaps you could write something yourself that would explain your ideas.

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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by steve » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:24 pm

RND,

The only way that your texts would speak of "becoming an Israelite" for "salvation" requires one to accept the tenuous connections you present, which neither I, nor any objective reader, would see any compelling reason to do. Feel free to make whatever connections you wish in your own beliefs, but don't be surprised if those less inclined to trust in E.G.White's inspiration do not follow you.

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Re: Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

Post by RND » Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:23 am

Homer wrote:RND,

Is your point that physical Israel foreshadowed the real Israel?
Jesus is the real Israel. Everything the nation of Israel could not accomplish Jesus accomplished.
I see nothing in your last copy and paste of EGW that would support the idea that I need to become a Jew. Maybe I missed it? Perhaps you could write something yourself that would explain your ideas.
One becomes an Israelite (not a Jew) by doing two things, acceptance of the lamb and circumcision. What was once symbolic in this, the actual feast of the Passover lamb and physical circumcision of the male foreskin, has now been replaced in a spiritual sense. Acceptance of the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world and spiritual circumcision which is to say circumcision of the heart.

In both instances one was not allowed to approach the sanctuary (type/anti-type) unless they were an Israelite.

It's not a matter of becoming a physical Jew or Israelite but rather becoming an adopted member of the family of God just as Abraham did, by faith. The picture painted in Exodus 12 is that of a nation, a mixed multitude at that, leaving the bonds of sin represented by Egypt for the freedom of protection by the grace of God. The realization of justification is clearly played out in Exodus 12.

Exd 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot [that were] men, beside children.

Rameses ="son of Ra" /Succoth=booths

They left sin to "tabernacle" with God.

The "gateway" to sin entering the "tent" (body) is through the door. This is why the blood of the innocent lamb was placed over the door posts and the lintel.

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Door - #6607 an opening (literally), i.e. door (gate) or entrance way:--door, entering (in), entrance (-ry), gate, opening, place.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Posts, side and upper make up the structure of the door or gate. The “upper door post” is also called a lintel, meaning “overhang”. This is symbolic of the body or tent. Lintel symbolic of sin over the door. The blood of the sacrificed male lamb was to be placed on the lintel and side posts to symbolize the covering of sin that enters the house (the tabernacle) through the door. This is done for us by the death of Christ on the cross.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 Cor 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

#4636 = a tabernacle, a tent

To me it is absolutely phenomenal how the symbolism of Exodus 12 was so richly brought to realization in the life of Christ. The very justification we enjoy, that allows us entry into the sanctuary (in this case the heavenly sanctuary), to enter into the sanctification process with our High Priest has been met type for anti-type.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

You Are Israel
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