Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

[SteveF]

Got it.
Thanks RND!

[Priestly1]

" All have sinned and have falled short of God's standard of brilliant standard for glorification.


Kill everyone and let God sort them all.....nuts! Theonomists make me sick! We are to judge those who claim to be apart of the Body of Christ....not those outside it. Read Paul once more...or Jesus!! Holy Cow batman! Is this a consept or what?!

Unless we are Old Cevenanters..GIVE IT UP! God summons...we accept....but in our community the Law of God is validated (read Christ & Paul).......all sexual sin is denounced as such....unrepentance is to be cast out as an unbeliever. Ware summoned as "Fruit Inspectors"....it is Christ who alone hold the axe and has the right to cut the trees down.


Hmmmmm........simple but true.


Rev. Ken

[Priestly1]

Man...who wrote that mispelled post!? \






ooooooops I did



Mea Culpa
Rev. Ken

[Homer]

Why isn't the subject "Death Penalty For Adultery"?

[RND]

Why isn't the subject "Death Penalty For Adultery"?

Because that would require looking into a mirror. Self-righteousness is more fun without accountability! But we need victims to inflate our fragile self-image.

"Thank you Father for not making me like THAT guy!"

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican (change publican to you favorite target!). 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

[steve]

I don't think anyone here is showing prejudice against homosexuals, or adulteresses, or any other kind of imperfect people. What is being discussed is whether there are to be penalties for crimes or not, and, if so, what are the most just penalties. There is no suggestion that an embezzler should be hated, but does anyone suggest that, when caught by the authorities, there should be no penalties that he must pay?

When we talk about whether a wrongdoer should face penalties, we are speaking about matters that are not ours to enforce, but they certainly are ours to have biblical opinions about. If an unrepentant and unreformed serial-killer, who has threatened to kill the judge and the witnesses who sent him to jail, is released from jail after two years' time, does anyone think that Christians are the only citizens who are not entitled to have an opinion about the injustice of this sentence? On the other hand, if a child steals a $10 toy from Wal-Mart, and is sent to prison for fifty years, should not Christians (at least if asked) have something intelligent and biblical to say about such injustice? I do not believe that Christians are to condemn sinners outside the church, but to suggest that God has no opinions about justice in the court system would be to ignore everything the law defined, and the prophets complained about. If God has an opinion, should not informed Christians know what that opinion is? And where would they find that opinion, if not in scripture?

Since Jesus never said one word about civil penalties (since He was never in a position to instruct governmental officials) we cannot draw conclusions about His opinion on such penalties from the Gospels. Jesus told Christians how to behave. He never told rulers or magistrates how to do their business—nor did He ever give the slightest hint that the magistrates should close-down the courts, and go into civilian work.

Unlike Jesus, Moses did say a great deal about criminal penalties. Both the Old and New Testament tell us that this law was perfect and devoid of any injustice. Where better could a legislator (or a Christian who is voting for legislation) look for a standard of civil justice than in the most perfect laws given to any society?

There clearly were some laws in the mosaic code that applied only to Israel as a people in a covenant with Yahweh—including laws about blasphemy and sabbath-breaking, and the penalties assigned to such acts. Probably most sexual behavior—so long as it remains a private matter, does not victimize anyone, and has no adverse affect on society at large—would also fall into this category. God judges the private, as well as the public, morality of His own people, but a secular nation ought to concern itself only with infractions that violate an individual's rights, or that bring harm to society.

Thus, the laws that require thieves to make restitution would be good for any society to adopt—and most Christians would not find that suggestion controversial. Putting a thief in jail would be less just—unless it was seen as the only way to keep him from continuing to victimize others. It would be most just to have the thief repay his victims, not to rot in prison—and this is what the law of Moses (which makes no provision for prisons) would dictate.

Crimes that injure other parties physically, should be penalized proportionally—an eye for an eye, etc. Crimes that do such ultimate harm to individuals and families—e.g., murder, adultery, kidnapping—are worthy of death. To deny that some crimes are worthy of death is to disagree with God's commands to Noah and the post-flood community, with God's law in the Old Testament, and with the teaching of the Apostle Paul. I am not prepared to stand in opposition to such authorities. Others are free to stand wherever they are comfortable, if being in agreement with God is not their priority.

[RND]

I don't think anyone here is showing prejudice against homosexuals, or adulteresses, or any other kind of imperfect people.

Steve, I wasn't generalizing regarding anyone here at the forum I was generalizing about the the Christian world. Seems many throw stones, forgetting they live in glass houses. And yes, I would include myself in this group at times myself.

There clearly were some laws in the mosaic code that applied only to Israel as a people in a covenant with Yahweh—including laws about blasphemy and sabbath-breaking, and the penalties assigned to such acts.

FYI Steve, "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I [am] the LORD your God." - Lev 24:22

Num 15:15 One ordinance [shall be both] for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you], an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye [are], so shall the stranger be before the LORD. 16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

God never plays favorites. Strangers were subject to the Mosaic laws regarding blasphemy and sabbath breaking.

Exd 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, [and] all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name [of the LORD], shall be put to death.

The NLT is much clearer: "Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die."

[Homer]

Steve,

For my part, I have no concern with those posting here, but with the church universal. While loudly preaching against homosexual activity, divorce and the often concomitant adulterous relationships are no big concern (I think because the new relationship isn't thought of as adulterous, if it is even thought about). While the evangelical church is opposed to the secular society on the homosexual agenda, the church seems to not be any different than those outside of it regarding divorce. I can remember when divorce was stigmatized to a great degree in society as a whole; the church must share the blame for the change.

[Suzana]

FYI Steve, "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I [am] the LORD your God." - Lev 24:22

Num 15:15 One ordinance [shall be both] for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you], an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye [are], so shall the stranger be before the LORD. 16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

What does the phrase "the stranger that sojourneth with you" mean exactly? Did it apply to any visitors generally, or only those who had decided to make Israel their new home, (& thus be subject to its' laws), like Ruth? I can't imagine that the queen of Sheba for example would have been held accountable to the laws of Moses while visiting Solomon.

[Paidion]

I doubt that "the law" of which Paul is speaking here was the "civil justice code that God gave to Israel."

Then to which law does he refer in your opinion?

Perhaps the ten commandments. It probably also included the two greatest commandments which our Lord described, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself."

Paul also wrote:

For the WHOLE law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Galatians 5:14 ESV

This seems simple, but it is easier said than done. We all have a propensity to love ourselves more. We don't have to be taught self-love as some insist: we possess it naturally.

We love ourselves enough to buy a new car when we need it, if we can afford it. I know of no one who has purchased a new car for his neighbour. Oh, I'm sure it has happened, but I've never seen it. It must be quite rare.

The practices which I spelled out again (and which Steve intends not to revisit) and which God presumably commanded Moses, shows no love for a neighbour. Rather they indicate punishment and/or revenge, sometimes for no offence at all --- merely SUSPECTED offence. If I kill my rebellious son, I do not demonstrate that I love him as myself. I wouldn't commit suicide if I found myself rebellious. If I suspect my wife of infidelity, I won't give her a liquid that is likely to harm her physically. If she has committed adultery and if she repents, I must forgive her. This is what Jesus taught. I am quite certain that Paul had none of these practices in mind when he wrote that the commandments of the law are "holy, righteous, and good."