*bump*
I wrote:I, too, would like to see a verse-by-verse interpretation that stays in the chapter (and they are really hard to find)....
Eureka!!!!
I googled the above quote from Arminius I posted and, to my surprise:
ARMINIUS DOES IT (for as far as I have read so far, imo)....
A few years ago, I had seen he wrote on Romans 7 but never read it. And I falsely assumed he would be in agreement with Wesley on this, which he is not (and this was one reason I never read it): DUH.
Here's a link (for now, scroll down to):
DISSERTATION OF THE TRUE AND GENUINE SENSE OF THE SEVENTH CHAPTER OF ST. PAUL'S LETTER TO THE ROMANS:
by Jacobus (James) Arminius
This is entirely awesome!!!!
I'm just posting this now for anyone (like Michelle?) who may want to read it.
The quote comes from Romans 7:24 (VERSE THE TWENTY-FOURTH)...right by where you see the number 337. This is a good part to read as it is a summary. Here's a a snippet:
Arminius wrote:Wherefore, from the 24th verse, when rightly understood, I argue thus for the establishment of my own opinion:
Those men who are placed under grace are not wretched; But this man is wretched;
Therefore, this man is not placed under grace.
The assumption is in the text, and thus placed beyond all controversy.
In reference to the proposition, perhaps some one will say, "Men, placed under grace, are partly blessed, and partly wretched — blessed, as they are regenerate and partakers of the grace of Christ — wretched, as they still have within them the remains of sin, with which they ought to maintain a constant warfare. This is a sure sign of a felicity which is not yet full and perfect." I confess that, while the regenerate continue as sojourners in this mortal life, they do not attain to a felicity that is full, complete in all its parts, and perfect. But I do not recollect ever to have read [in the Scriptures] that they are, on this account, called "wretched" with regard to the "spiritual life which they live by faith of the Son of God," though, in reference to this natural life, "they be of all men most miserable." (1 Corinthians 15:19.) The opposite to this may be easily proved from the Scriptures: "Blessed are the poor in spirit — they that mourn — that hunger and thirst after righteousness," etc. (Matthew 5:3-12.)
"But," some one will rejoin, "Is it not wretched to contend with the remains of sin, to be buffeted by the messenger of Satan, sometimes to be overcome, and to be grievously injured?" It is undoubtedly desirable that this were not necessary, that it never occurred, that they might be delivered from the messenger of Satan; but the contenders, and those who are thus buffeted, cannot be called "wretched" on account of that contest and buffeting. But it is wretched indeed, to be overcome; yet neither are they called "wretched," who, though they be sometimes conquered, more frequently obtain the victory over the world, sin and Satan.
One comment.
1 Co 15 (NIV)
9If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
Arminius didn't "post" the first part of the verse. But his reference to "in natural life" covers it (that would be to say, if we only had the natural, if Christ was not raised).
New thread soon, I hope,
(any feedback in the meantime, welcomed)
Rick
I must have been tired (searching for an excuse) or perhaps my old, little used NIV leaped out of a hidden closet in my mind! I should have said "flesh".