Gay Christians

Post by **_TK** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:21 am

i agree, steve. coming "just as i am" doesnt mean you can go "just as you are."

TK

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:20 am

So, if a homosexual can become a Christian, at what point must they cease being homosexual?

Post by **_Christopher** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:56 pm

Do you mean cease behaving as one, or being one?

I think that's like asking at what point someone must cease from being a liar.

When someone comes to Christ, they must cease being their own Lord...period. There are both victories and defeats in that journey. I like the story of Lonnie Frisbee because, according to his friends, he seemed to hate and denounce his homosexual struggles, but he suffered defeats at times.

I think that is the attitude we're supposed to have toward all of our sin. We hate it, denounce it, do everything we can to avoid it, but when we fall in our weakness, repent and start over. The victories come more frequently as we continue to exercise resistance, in faith, through the power of the Spirit, and let those victories eventually exhaust the power of the defeats.

So to answer your question....I think it's immediately.

I'm leary of any environment that simply accepts defeat and doesn't strongly encourage continual resistance. But I'm also leary of any environment that gives up on people too easily and chucks em' out at the first stumbling. Longsuffering is the order for those of us trying to help those who are truly trying to gain victory.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:58 pm

So, if a homosexual can become a Christian, at what point must they cease being homosexual?

At the same point we cease from sinning. Seriously i think it's a matter of their heartfelt desire to follow the will of God and if they stumble then they must get up and walk again and again and again.
And i think Christian's tendency to highlight this particular sin as more evil then other sins is a big mistake.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:06 pm

So what would you say about the following two scenarios:

A) A Christian who considers themselves homosexual in orientation but chooses to live a celebate lifestyle?

B) A Christian who considers themselves homosexual and is in a long-term monogamous relationship with another homosexual person?

BTW, I should point out, in asking all these questions I'm trying to be Socratic and keep the conversation going; I'm not necessarily taking a stand one way or the other.

Post by **_MLH** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:22 pm

Not many of you should become teachers there is a stricter judgement.

These ministers of the gospel will be held more accountable
to an all knowing GOD. These ministers that are afraid to speak
truth in love because they are afraid of "offending" someone.
Shame on them! May God open their eyes and reveal to them
truth.

When I came out of the world it took me a few months to understand
some deep sin I was in. All the while the Holy Spirit was working
on my behalf, I was crying out for some truth. I was raised in a very
liberal home and quite anxious for some boundaries.

Post by **_MLH** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:32 pm

I am sorry I ever read this post about "Gay" homosexuality.

I went to the wesites you listed Mort and they are disgusting.
What a world we live in! Sure we can come to Jesus as we
are, BUT he expects change. " without holiness NO man
shall see the Lord."

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:57 pm

A) A Christian who considers themselves homosexual in orientation but chooses to live a celebate lifestyle?

B) A Christian who considers themselves homosexual and is in a long-term monogamous relationship with another homosexual person?

I think A is following God's will and B is following his own will.

Post by **_Homer** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:10 pm

Danny,

You wrote:

So what would you say about the following two scenarios:

A) A Christian who considers themselves homosexual in orientation but chooses to live a celebate lifestyle?

B) A Christian who considers themselves homosexual and is in a long-term monogamous relationship with another homosexual person?

Just to keep the conversation going, I would say the same (not saying what that is

) as I would about the following two scenarios:

A) A Christian man who finds his neighbor's wife attractive.

B) A "Christian" man who is living in an exclusive relationship with his neighbor's wife.

Hope my quotation marks around Christian do not give my position away!

By the way, homosexuals can not have a monogamous relationship.

Monogamous comes from mon + gamos, meaning one marriage. Only a married male and female who honor their vows have a monogamous relationship. We do not need them to change the meaning of another word as they have "gay".

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:24 pm

Good point Homer!

MLH, I didn't think those websites were disgusting, even though I may not agree with all of their views. I'm sorry if I've offended you.

You wrote:

These ministers that are afraid to speak truth in love because they are afraid of "offending" someone.

I don't believe that these ministers are afraid to "speak the truth in love". Actually, right or wrong, they are taking a pretty brave position and I can respect that. Their motivation seems to be a desire to extend God's love and grace, albeit without repentance from what is regarded by most Christians as sin, to a hurting and marginalized group of people.

I read something interesting today in Romans while I was ignoring the sermon at church:

"Let love be your only debt! If you love others, you have done all that the Law demands. In the Law there are many commands, such as, 'Be faithful in marriage. Do not murder. Do not steal. Do not want what belongs to others.' But all of these are summed up in the command that says, 'Love others as much as you love yourself.' No one who loves others will harm them. So love is all that the Law demands. - Romans 13:8-10 (CEV)

This tells me that our default position should be love.

But then Paul goes on to say:

"You know what sort of times we live in, and so you should live properly. It is time to wake up. You know that the day when we will be saved is nearer now than when we first put our faith in the Lord. Night is almost over, and day will soon appear. We must stop behaving as people do in the dark and be ready to live in the light. So behave properly, as people do in the day. Don't go to wild parties or get drunk or be vulgar or indecent. Don't quarrel or be jealous. Let the Lord Jesus Christ be as near to you as the clothes you wear. Then you won't try to satisfy your selfish desires." - Romans 13:11-14 (CEV)

What is interesting to me about this bit is that Paul is speaking to the church in Rome. He is speaking to Christians. He is telling them to wake up and quit doing the things that, apparently, they were doing. It appears that there were sinners in the church!

The teachers at the websites I listed who minister to gays do not believe that homosexuality, in and of itself, is sinful. They believe that behaviors such as promiscuity are sinful. They don't believe that a monogamous homosexual relationship is sinful. They have their own interpretations of the scriptures that we would say condemn homosexuality. Some of their interpretations are compelling (particularly regarding the sin of Sodom), while others seem rather flimsy.

Regardless of all this, and to get back to the original point of this thread, there are gay Christians.

Now the next question is, what would you do if a gay couple showed up and began worshipping at your church?