thank you Paidion for your patience too!
Your questions numbers 4 and 5 are a bit disturbing to me because they seem to imply that God is unjust to so instruct us. You asked:
4. Do you believe that anyone in your church who is caught working on the Sabbath should be excommunicated?
Exodus 31:14b whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
5. Do you believe that capital punishment ought to be administered to anyone in your church who regards the Sabbath as an ordinary day ?
Exodus 31:14a You shall keep the sabbath, because it is holy for you; every one who profanes it shall be put to death.
It is apparent that you disagree with God's instructions here. Have I discerned your implication correctly?
If I have, I would like to address this, if God permits. I'm not sure how to do it because I don't want to misjudge your heart, for, from the very limited reading of some of your posts, I have found you to be very "studied" and reasonable, with much love and grace evident in your postings. (mostly!
) I look forward to getting to know you better.
Your moniker, if that's the right word, is Paidion, which, I believe, means "child"? I am interested in why you picked it, but will use it to start some thoughts, that I hope will better help me to address this common part in most of us.
A child
usually, starts out very agreeable with his father's heart. He doesn't argue, when his father gives him a command. He may ask why the father gave it, but this is not arguing with it so much as it is his desire to understand his father's thinking better, so as to begin to learn to think more like him. It even pleases him to obey his father, which gives them both joy. Sometimes, the child may be too young to understand his father's reasons for instructing or prohibiting the way he does, but the child trusts his father and initially tries to obey his instructions. (I realize there are rebellious children, but I am speaking generally, maybe even idealistically)
At some point, a child may be influenced by various things to question his father's commands. Maybe somebody told him that his father was a tyrant or something, not to let him play in the street. Because "Everyone knows" playing in the street is fun!
The child begins to distrust his father and starts listening to other influences. He may even think that the punishment or disciplines applied by the father are unreasonable or unfair, so he begins to question even more strenuously. He starts doubting his father, and starts trusing in his own ability to know what is right and wrong. Here is where most of our problems surface, when "everyone is doing what is right in his own eyes"!
I am, apparently, still like a child that still trusts his Father, because my experience has taught me that He always knows better than I what is right and what is wrong. I, in fact, am seeking "His" righteousness. I am seeking His definitions of what is right.
I believe He has issued these commands and I believe that they are righteous. I do not disagree with them either, as you, apparently, do.
In Isaiah chapter one we see that God invites us to become willing and obedient to His commands, rather than doing what is right in our own eyes.
The two cases you brought up remind me of a confrontation I had with a "liberal" "pastor" who was pooh-pooing God's instruction to bring the rebellious youth to the elders of the city and stone him to death. He thought himself to be more loving and definitely more righteous than the God of the "Old" testament! I asked him if he knew what reprobate meant, after I had asked him if he knew the definition of sin. He had answered the first question with "Anything that is not loving". Apparentlym he thought it unloving to follow God's instructions, because he was too harsh!
Did you hear about the young "man" (I think he was about 17) in omaha Nebraska that shot eight people in a mall...just innocent people minding their own business. The kid wanted to "go out in style", according to some written corespondence. Anyway, the kid was from a broken home, and the father lamented that he couldn't get the kid to listen to him. He had been in and out of state counseling programs etc.....with everyone knowing better than God of course... When my wife and I heard about this, she said they should have taken the kid to the elders of the city and he should have been stoned to death. At least the eight innocent people would still be alive now. Lord willing, even though the kid killed himself anyway. Who knows how many others this kid infected with his evil ways of thinking. Only God.
Anyway, I'm not answering your questions yet am I? Do you understand what I am concerned about in your questions?
Anyway, I think my "church" should be teaching obedience to God's commandments. If people willfully desire to do their own will rather than submit to His, then, yes, I think, after being warned, they should be "cut off" until such time as they be led by God to repent. Otherwise, their attitude of witchcraft may spread to other "innocents", and then it would be better for them to have a mill stone hung around their necks and be cast into the sea, rather than to offend one of His little ones.
Most, are not being taught to regard highly God's word and His Law, however, so much patience and corrective teaching is being called for, but many "will" not to endure sound doctrine, the doctrine that conforms to godliness....but rather want their ears "tickled"!
Problem with today, here in America, is that we are not under a theocracy yet, so I hesitate to counsel anything other than "Fret not yourself because of evildoers". If we start stoning to death all of the wicked, ...our arms would get tired. I am all for warning them, however, and for teaching those who claim to love God to obey His commandments!
Hope this answers some of your objections friend. I will look forward to reading a response from you.
peace, dmatic
