"Aionios" NEVER means "eternal"

[Guest]

Paidion,

Benzoic replied before me and stated well how your method from the start has been a gasconade in the sense of overstatement and (in my opinion) going beyond the bounds of truth. It is quite a stretch to say in giant bold letters AIONIOS NEVER MEANS ETERNAL, and repeatedly say this, when it obviously does mean eternal in many places in scripture, at least to me and almost all translations and lexicons.

You wrote:

Thus the contrast in the passage is not between "temporal" (that which related to time) and "eternal" (that which is outside of time), but rather between "temporary" (lasting for a limited time) and "permanent" (lasting for a long time or lasting forever).

So you think the "unseen things" Paul wrote of are only "lasting for a long time" or do you admit Paul had in mind eternal things such as God, the Holy Spirit, etc., when that which he contasted the unseen with is thousands of years old (aionios to you, proskairos to Paul) ?

Earlier you wrote:

Firstly, "proskairos" does not mean "temporal", that is, referring to "time" as contrasted with "eternity". Rather, "proskairos" means "temporary".

That is strange. Proskairos is translated "temporal" in 2 Corinthians 4:18 in the KJV, NAS, ASV, Douay-Rheims, ERV, and Amplified and perhaps more. It also can mean temporary, but the context, comparing things obviously eternal (God is unseen), with that which is thousands of years old, demands an understanding of temporal/eternal.

Of proskairos Kittle says:

This late word means "temporally conditioned," "temporally limited," "unusal," "transitory' (also in a qualitative sense). In the LXX it denotes "temporal" as distinct from "eternal".... In 2. Cor. 4:18 we find the contrast between the temporal, which is also transitory, and the eternal, which is definitive.

We do agree on some things: Calvinism, very close on baptism, and I also noticed you speak highly of Geisler's work on ethics. I had his old version, since donated to a college in the Philippines. In his new edition he has adopted the term "graded absolutist" for "hierarchicalist". I fully agree with his view.

[Guest]

please tell us how we know our life in Christ is eternal. Aidios is never used as an adjective for that life, but aionios was used



Paul told us the nature of our resurrected bodies are imperishable, indestructable and that the mortal will put on immortality among other things therefore the word "aionios" is not the desription we need for eternal life but "immortality." 1 Cor 15.

[Guest]

Benzoic, please read carefully what I said. Not once have I said that "permanent" can sometimes mean "eternal". Rather I have clearly stated that "aiōnios" or "permanent" can be applied to that which is eternal, just as "green" can be applied to things which fly. But that doesn't imply that "green" means "that which flies".

You stated: "permanent does not necessarily mean eternal" as if to imply that sometimes it can be used as eternal. You stated: "permanent" (lasting for a long time or lasting forever)."

Anyway, if I apply the word green to that which flies, we obviously know green doesn’t mean that which flies, because it is a color and has nothing to do with flying. Aiwnios defines a time space and it is used to describe lengths of time. The word is used to describe God in respect to time . . . and so we gather that it can mean eternal.

If aiwnios has no capacity to mean eternal then all those verses used to describe God with aiwnios should be rendered the terminal God. It makes no difference if it’s “long lasting”, “unto the ages”, the point is, in your view, aiwnios is terminal and if you employ that straightforward meaning as I did in 2 Cor 4:18 it is evident that the verses loose their value.

[Guest]

Homer,

You insist that eternal things have no end. To be consistent you must also affirm that eternal things have no beginning. Please explain how "eternal life" and "eternal punishment" have no beginning.

Todd

[Guest]

You insist that eternal things have no end. To be consistent you must also affirm that eternal things have no beginning. Please explain how "eternal life" and "eternal punishment" have no beginning.

That's an easy one. God alone is immortal (eternal). In Him, we have eternal life. We partake of that life by being in Him.

[Guest]

You insist that eternal things have no end. To be consistent you must also affirm that eternal things have no beginning. Please explain how "eternal life" and "eternal punishment" have no beginning.

That's an easy one. God alone is immortal (eternal). In Him, we have eternal life. We partake of that life by being in Him.

What about eternal punishment? Explain how that has no beginning?

Todd

[Guest]

Todd,

When would separation from God begin?

[Guest]

Todd,

When would separation from God begin?

Are you avoiding my question by asking another? I'll answer yours.

Separation from God occurs sometime between childhood and adulthood.

Todd

[Guest]

Homer,

While you formulate your answer I'll give you one possible answer.

"Eternal punishment" is 'eternal' because it comes from the Eternal Father and has nothing to do with when the punishment begins or ends.

This is essentially the same reasoning you used to answer the question about 'eternal life'.

Todd

[Guest]

You stated: "permanent does not necessarily mean eternal" as if to imply that sometimes it can be used as eternal.

I erred. I wrote too hastily. I should have written "Permanent does not necessarily refer to that which is eternal."