"TULIP" . . . Universalist Style

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:56 pm

Steve wrote:I'm with Michelle. I don't know what cross-posting is (some moderator I am! I don't even know the vocabulary!). Could someone inform me:

1. What the term refers to;
2. Why it is considered unethical or impolite enough to get someone banned for it; and
3. When/where MDH did this?

Knowing MDH as I do, it is hard for me to imagine him ever doing anything unkind or impolite...but maybe he's got me fooled!

the simultaneous sending of a message to multiple discussion topics.

Post by **_Suzana** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:30 pm

I also had no idea what cross-posting was, so went to Answers.com & the wikipedia stated:
"Crossposting is the act of posting the same message to multiple forums...
Excessive crossposting is considered bad form because it multiplies traffic without adding any new content...Crossposting can be helpful if the message is of interest to a larger audience..."

Not sure if this is what happened above...
in any case since this is a family fellowship, WHY would it be rude, if I met my sister in the study, to ask about some comment I overheard her discussing in the lounge with my brother??
just curious.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:11 pm

Not sure if this is what happened above...
in any case since this is a family fellowship, WHY would it be rude, if I met my sister in the study, to ask about some comment I overheard her discussing in the lounge with my brother??
just curious.

It would depend on whether you're here to learn and share ideas or whether you consider this forum to be a competition.
Mike is the last person on this forum i would think of as being rude.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:15 pm

I like to cross-post, but only on weekends.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:27 pm

In English we have have the word "aeon" meaning: "a long period of time; an endless or immeasurable period of time." This definition would fit into universalist beliefs if "endless" were dropped (and not to go into the fact that this might mean the "immeasurasble after life" could potentially come to an end). In any event, the word 'aeon' or the words 'aionion life' seem to be basically unknown to English-speakers when it comes to life after death. That is, with the exception of universalists. So they have a big problm on their hands. Some literal translations of the Bible don't use "eternal" and have various renderings of aioion. But it remains that, as a rule, the average person has no idea what an "aionion life" or "age-during life" is or might be: People just haven't heard of it.....

The average person knows what the RCC taught and what the KJV and it's offspring translated. According to dictionary.com "aion" can mean age and in the NT it's used many times in plural form as "aions" or ages which clearly means a certain period of time. So the way it's used is what really matters and "aionios" is simply the adjective of aion.
So the fact is CUs do not have a big problem or even a little problem on their hands.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:28 pm

I like to cross-post, but only on weekends.

You too Dude!

Post by **__id_2533** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:23 pm

I'm not sure if this is a good place to jump in here...but I did finish reading this thread this morning and want to make some comments. I'm not yet "familiar" with everyone's positions, but it seems to me that some good suggestions were made within this thread that were avoided for some reason, namely, the definition of salvation. There was some talk of being "saved" from hell as the primary defintion of salvation which led to a warning that trying to define "hell" would interupt the conversation, and that most people agree about its defintion. But what do we care what "most people" think? Don't we want to know the truth?

Anyway, I hope I do.

I am, it seems, in a state of transformation from what is normally viewed as "reality", by the 'world', in to a more rare view. I am becoming a "Restorationist". I believe that God is reconciling the whole world to Himself through his Son. I also believe that He is able to accomplish all that He sets out to do.

I have watched some debates between Calvinists versus Arminians and realized that they both had scripture, it seemed to back what they were arguing, but that they were both wrong in other aspects of their varied versions. Now, there is debate about "Open theism" and I'm not sure what the arguments are, yet.

"Universalists" have been around a long time too. I'm not sure what the CU, CI, eternal torment groups are and what they believ yet, but I believe it important to discover the truth, so as to better understand our Creator, and His plan, and His character.

I don't know about anyone else, but to me, the concept that God could predestinate people to an eternal place of torment always bothered me very greatly. This view did not describe the God I had come to know and love.

then the free-willers argued that "Free-will" is the master, and that God would never override a man's free will choice, and so, really, people "choose" to go to hell "forever"!

Another view that didn't make sense in light of scripture.

But, what if hell, itself, didn't last "forever"?

This is the case according to Rev. Hell does not last forever, but will give up the dead who are in it and then, hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire! This is good news!

As to the existence of a "hell", we are assured because Y'Shua talked of it. But, we can also be assured that it does not last "forever" as is a common misconception of 'reality'.

I would like to pursue this topic. If it should be here or another place, please inform.

I, particularly liked Steve's comment: wherein he wrote: "Like yourself, I am not a Universalist--though (like God Himself) I would like to become one, if possible someday."

This statment gives me great hope that there are others on this board who are seeking truth, and not simply "tradition".

It does appear that God IS reconciling the whole world....It truly is a wonderful plan! Let us give Him a chance to inform us of it, and to correct our many misunderstandings that have come to us through many who have come in His name, but have deceived many!

So,...if anyone accepts this request, to define "salvation" first, I would be happy to read your thoughts.

peace, dmatic

Post by **__id_2529** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:48 pm

Steve wrote:
If an unbeliever is not willing to surrender to King Jesus without first being told exactly what the consequences will be for his resistance, then I suspect that man has not yet the capacity to surrender on God's terms at all.

Interesting point steve. Most of the personal "salvation" stories I have heard start something like this.

"When I first became a Christian it was because I was afraid of going to Hell"

That was my personal experience and I feel my spiritual life has been summed up by one BIG threat. I have come along ways since then as i don't think God would want us to respond to Him In a "TURN or BURN" fashion.

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:18 pm

Primarily, we are saved (delivered) from sin. Being delivered from Hell (Gehenna) is a lesser part of the package.

God's main purpose for humanity throughout the Scriptures is to deliver people from their sins. He wants righteousness!

Matthew 1:21 ... she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.

Isaiah 45:8 "Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the skies rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation may sprout forth, and let it cause righteousness to spring up also; I, Yahweh have created it.

Nowhere do we read that Jesus died in order to save us from Hell.
Here are the reasons given in the New Testament for the death of Christ:

I Peter 2:24 He himself endured our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

II Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.

Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:20 pm

Paidion wrote:Primarily, we are saved (delivered) from sin. Being delivered from Hell (Gehenna) is a lesser part of the package.

God's main purpose for humanity throughout the Scriptures is to deliver people from their sins. He wants righteousness!

I agree! He who sins harms himself and others. Sin has devastating consequences in this life. Christ came to deliver mankind from their sins. Salvation, then, is to be delivered from a life of selfishness and to be transformed into a life that is giving, loving, and compassionate toward others. In this deliverance (salvation) one finds peace and joy.

Todd