The Free Will of Man According to 'the Church Fathers'

[Guest]

100-165 AD : Justin Martyr
“We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it be predestinated that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions—whatever they may be.” (First Apology ch.43 )

[About the year 180, Florinus had affirmed that God is the author of sin, which notion was immediately attacked by Ireneaus, who published a discourse entitled: “God, not the Author of Sin.” Florinus’ doctrine reappeared in another form later in Manichaeism, and was always considered to be a dangerous heresy by the early fathers of the church.]

130-200 AD : Irenaeus
“This expression, ‘How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldst not,’ set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free (agent) from the beginning, possessing his own soul to obey the behests of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God...And in man as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice...If then it were not in our power to do or not to do these things, what reason had the apostle, and much more the Lord Himself, to give us counsel to do some things and to abstain from others?” (Against Heresies XXXVII )

150-190 AD : Athenagoras
“men...have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice (for you would not either honor the good or punish the bad; unless vice and virtue were in their own power, and some are diligent in the matters entrusted to them, and others faithless)...”(Embassy for Christians XXIV )

150-200 AD : Clement of Alexandria
“Neither praise nor condemnation, neither rewards nor punishments, are right if the soul does not have the power of choice and avoidance, if evil is involuntary.” (Miscellanies, book 1, ch.17)

154-222 AD : Bardaisan of Syria
“How is it that God did not so make us that we should not sin and incur condemnation? —if man had been made so, he would not have belonged to himself but would have been the instrument of him that moved him...And how in that case, would man differ from a harp, on which another plays; or from a ship, which another guides: where the praise and the blame reside in the hand of the performer or the steersman...they being only instruments made for the use of him in whom is the skill? But God, in His benignity, chose not so to make man; but by freedom He exalted him above many of His creatures.” (Fragments )

155-225 AD : Tertullian
“I find, then, that man was by God constituted free, master of his own will and power; indicating the presence of God’s image and likeness in him by nothing so well as by this constitution of his nature.” (Against Marcion, Book II ch.5 )

185-254 AD : Origin
“This also is clearly defined in the teaching of the church that every rational soul is possessed of free-will and volition.” (De Principiis, Preface )

185-254 AD : Origen
“There are, indeed, innumerable passages in the Scriptures which establish with exceeding clearness the existence of freedom of will.” (De Principiis, Book 3, ch.1 )

250-300 AD : Archelaus
“There can be no doubt that every individual, in using his own proper power of will, may shape his course in whatever direction he chooses.” (Disputation with Manes, secs.32,33 )

260-315 AD : Methodius
“Those [pagans] who decide that man does not have free will, but say that he is governed by the unavoidable necessities of fate, are guilty of impiety toward God Himself, making Him out to be the cause and author of human evils.” (The Banquet of the Ten Virgins, discourse 8, chapter 16 )

312-386 AD : Cyril of Jerusalem
“The soul is self-governed: and though the Devil can suggest, he has not the power to compel against the will. He pictures to thee the thought of fornication: if thou wilt, thou rejectest. For if thou wert a fornicator by necessity then for what cause did God prepare hell? If thou wert a doer of righteousness by nature and not by will, wherefore did God prepare crowns of ineffable glory? The sheep is gentle, but never was it crowned for its gentleness; since its gentle quality belongs to it not from choice but by nature.” (Lecture IV 18 )

347-407 AD : John Chrysostom
“All is in God’s power, but so that our free-will is not lost...it depends therefore on us and on Him. We must first choose the good, and then He adds what belongs to Him. He does not precede our willing, that our free-will may not suffer. But when we have chosen, then He affords us much help...It is ours to choose beforehand and to will, but God’s to perfect and bring to the end.” (On Hebrews, Homily 12 )

[Guest]

Paidion, may i ask your reason for posting these quotes? I am new to this site, and am unaware of anybody's position on "free-will".

So, May I ask what your position is?

I think that we need to define what we mean by "free" as it is undeniable that men have wills, and the ability to choose. This is no proof of "free" will however, because even computers have the ability to choose. But, this is of course, determined by programs. thus, their choices are caused.

i think that free will may be an illusion? I am just starting to come to that conclusion. If you have any information that may disagree with that conclusion, I'd be happy to read it. thank you

Peace, dmatic

[Guest]

boy oh boy dmatic, you are opening up a can of worms! but an interesting can it is!

Paidion, I am sure, will provide his explanation as to how it is illogical for us to have both free will, and believe that God knows everything we will ever do.

This has been discussed elsewhere on this forum-- look for the topics dealing with "open theism."

TK

[Guest]

thanks TK for the warning! I don't know too much about worms! Maybe I can learn something.

I have heard a bit about "Open theism", but have not studied it at all, that I know of. I'll try to heed your advice and check out those other threads when I can find some time to do so.

In the meantime, I'm just "willing" to talk about "free" will!

Peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Paidion, I am sure, will provide his explanation as to how it is illogical for us to have both free will, and believe that God knows everything we will ever do.

TK, why would I do that? Such an argument is irrelevant to a person who does not believe in free will.

Paidion, may i ask your reason for posting these quotes? I am new to this site, and am unaware of anybody's position on "free-will".

I posted those quotes so that the members of this forum who are not already aware of it, may be made aware of the fact that Christians of the first four centuries believed in free will. Indeed, some of them wrote adamantly against determinism, the doctrine of many of the non-Christians of their era.

So, May I ask what your position is?

You may have already guessed that I believe in free will. I don't think it takes a detailed, lengthy argument to justify it. For we all experience it.
For years I have been puzzled that some people can deny having a characterisic which they obviously possess. If you are offered a candy, you can choose a red one or a blue one. No prior cause ensures which you shall choose.

I think that we need to define what we mean by "free" as it is undeniable that men have wills, and the ability to choose. This is no proof of "free" will however, because even computers have the ability to choose. But, this is of course, determined by programs. thus, their choices are caused.

That is the most unusual understanding of "the ability to choose" which I have ever encountered. What do you mean when you say computers have the ability to choose? If their actions are determined by their programs, they do not have the ability to choose. Perhaps you refer to the supposed "chance actions" which some computer programs generate. For a simple example, let us consider a program which throws "a die". We say that the number on the die comes up "by chance", but in reality the number which comes up is generated by a set of mathematical computations. There is no "chance" involved. But since the users of the program cannot predict the number which turns up, they think of it as chance. The same may be said of throwing a physical die. The pressure of the fingers on the die, the air resistance, the quality of the surface upon which it lands, etc. determine the number which will come up.

There are doubtless a number of brain events which can be determinative also. What what caused the brain events? Somehow we can trace it all back to what I will call "the person" or, if you prefer "the metaphysical ego". That is the "first cause" of our actions. That source is itself uncaused, but yet (in spite of some philosophy to the contrary) the person's choices are not "random". The person makes choices to get the ball rolling. Thus with this understanding, it can be confidentally affirmed that "free will" is tantamount to "the power to choose."

i think that free will may be an illusion? I am just starting to come to that conclusion. If you have any information that may disagree with that conclusion, I'd be happy to read it. thank you

All I can say at this point in the discussion, is that from my point of view, it is the denial of free will which is the illusion.

To deny free will may be analgous to denying that we have a mind and to call that perception "illusory".

[Guest]

Thank you Paidion, I am limited to correspondence time, because I live out in the country and don't have internet service! I do try to get to the public libraries when I can.....

I would be honored to investigate this issue with you, if you'll grant me a bit of patience...(You haven't recently prayed for patience have you? ) (If so, maybe I'm your answer! 8) God may be giving you some practice!)

I have to vacate here but will try to comment of one or two of your statements, wherein you wrote:

... What do you mean when you say computers have the ability to choose? If their actions are determined by their programs, they do not have the ability to choose. ....The pressure of the fingers on the die, the air resistance, the quality of the surface upon which it lands, etc. determine the number which will come up.

Actually, scripture says that every outcome of the "chance" or "lot" is determined by the LORD.

Then you wrote: (and I realize that I am pulling these out of context, sorry)

That is the "first cause" of our actions.

I believe the "first cause" of all things is God.

I didn't mean to make you mad, when I suggested that I think that "free" will is an illusion....but you wrote:

All I can say at this point in the discussion, is that from my point of view, it is the denial of free will which is the illusion.

You can probably say more...but may I ask you if you think that Samson would have thought himslef to be opporating with his "free" will.....uncaused...when he "elected" to ask his parents to "get that Philistine woman for me to wed"? We see from the scripture that records this story that the participants were not aware that it was God Who was "causing" these "so-called free will choices" because He saought an occasion against the Philistines!

Gotta go, for now...Peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Thank you Dmatic. I wasn't at all angry with you. Sometimes my statements are taken that way, because my responses are often "thinking out loud" rather than carefully couching them in diplomatic terms.

However, I really think that denial of free will is, in fact, illusory. This wasn't a mere come back.

Please take all the time you wish to respond. There's no great rush.
The truth can wait, whether it is you or I or someone else, who brings it.

When you get to know me better, you will see an element of patience there after all!

I'm so glad you've come into the forum!

By the way, I live in the country, too. I still live on the quater section of land on which I was born. My father was a farmer at a subsistence level.
However, I am blessed to have internet access way out here. The reason is that I can get it wireless from a tower 6 miles away.

With love in the Altogether Lovely One,

[Guest]

II have a Bible in town tonight and have another minute....before I'm due there, brother. I could tell by your picture that you are a patient man!

I also knew you were serious about the following:

However, I really think that denial of free will is, in fact, illusory. This wasn't a mere come back.

I also don't mind if you think out loud. I have nothing to hide either.

The case for free will is definitely an interesting one. Last night at the Penitentiary, one of the men asked if we could discuss this very topic the next time, so I agreed, and look forward to the discussion. In the mean time, I will try to get "educated" by discussing this with you...

He asked that if God knew all things and predestinated all things, then where does "free" will come in? Ithink this is the topic that "Open Theism" proponents are trying to deal with. As people try to "rassle" with these dilemas, i hope God is pleased with our search.

have you checked out that passage concerning Samson's 'free' will yet?

Gotta go,.....Peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Paidion, Thank you for your patience. As I was thinking this morning, I realized that we have a point of agreement about this topic. We, at least, agree that one of the views of "free" will is illusionary!
You wrote:

However, I really think that denial of free will is, in fact, illusory.

Whereas, I am thinking that the concept of "free" will is illusory.

Can we both be right?

I think we should define what we mean when we say "free" will...because I think it not universally understood.

I think it is undebateable that we, indeed, have a will. But, is it "free" or not? is the question i am investigating. Earlier, I had said that even a computer "chooses", but is dependant on its programming.

You may agree with me that if we define "free" as unrestricted, or uncaused, that we do not posess such a thing as "free" will.

I am interested to hear how you would define "free" will. Then, we may proceed to see if, according to scripture, we have it or not, and which of us is under the illusion!

Peace friend!
dmatic

[Guest]

I think that we need to define what we mean by "free" as it is undeniable that men have wills, and the ability to choose. This is no proof of "free" will however, because even computers have the ability to choose. But, this is of course, determined by programs. thus, their choices are caused.



Hi dmatic, Welcome to the forum, i'm just curious have you ever read L. Ray Smith writings?