SOME THINGS ARE ETERNAL; OTHERS ARE NOT

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:25 pm

God is eternal;
Satan is not.

Love is eternal;
Evil is not.

Light is eternal;
Darkness is not.

Joy is eternal;
Misery is not.

Heaven is eternal;
Hell is not.

[Author unknown]

Post by **_Allyn** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:44 pm

Which heaven is eternal?

Post by **_Allyn** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:05 pm

The first mention of heaven(s):
In the beginning God created the heavens

We also know that there will be a new heaven as mentioned in at least 3 places.

There are numerous mentions of heaven as being in layers above the earth.

A man once went to the third heaven.

Post by **_Allyn** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:13 pm

My real point, since no one wishes to otherwise respond to my nudging, is if Heaven is a place created then how is it determined to be eternal? By what criteria does one use to say, beyond doubt, that anything created will last eternally? If God did not create heaven, then who did? Does it come as standard equipment with God?

Post by **_SoaringEagle** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:14 pm

The judgment in the here after is eternal.
Life on earth is before then is not

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:30 am

Wbsters
Main Entry: 1ev·er·last·ing
Pronunciation: ˌe-vər-ˈlas-tiŋ
Function: adjective
Date: 13th century
1: lasting or enduring through all time : eternal

Matthew 25:44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Post by **_schoel** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:49 pm

Allyn wrote:My real point, since no one wishes to otherwise respond to my nudging, is if Heaven is a place created then how is it determined to be eternal? By what criteria does one use to say, beyond doubt, that anything created will last eternally? If God did not create heaven, then who did? Does it come as standard equipment with God?

This is N.T. Wright from the book Simply Christian
Perhaps it sheds some light on what the biblical authors meant by heaven.

Two misunderstandings need clearing up at once. First, despite what some later theologians seem to have imagined, the ancient biblical writers did not suppose that, had they been able to travel in space, they would have come sooner or later to the place where God lived. Granted, the word "heaven" in Hebrew and Greek can mean, effectively, "the Sky"; but the biblical writers move more effortlessly than most modern readers between that meaning (a location within the world of space, time and matter) and the regular meaning of "God's dwelling place" - that is, a different sort of "location" altogether. "Heaven" in this latter, very common biblical sense is God's space as opposed to our space, not God's location within our space-time universe. The question is then whether God's space and our space intersect and if so how, when and where.

Dave

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:55 pm

Matthew 25:44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Heaven may be a relationship in Christ and not a place considering that Jesus said those who believe in Him have crossed over from death to life and shall never die. And the resurrected believers by definition have eternal life since Paul said their bodies will be imperishable and incorruptable.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:58 pm

Here's a little snippet from N.T. Wright to tack onto what Dave provided:

...in our culture when we use the language of heaven and earth, we still tend to think about an 'upstairs/downstairs' thing. But for the Ancient Jew, heaven is not another place within our cosmos - upstairs somewhere. Heaven is another dimension of present reality, so that for instance if you went to the temple it wasn't as if you were in heaven. They really believed you were in heaven because the temple was the place within our geography which overlaps with God's geography, as it were.

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:14 pm

OK, cool. But one part of my statement had to do with this; We know God is everywhere and before creation He was somewhere. Was that somewhere a state of being that comes with being God or did God create it? If it is Heaven where God's true place is then did He create it or not? If He created it then it cannot be eternal because it had a beginning. If He did not create it then it is part of His essense and has no beginning or end. Padion quoted the author as saying Heaven is eternal but Hell is not. I think neither are or both are. Light and darkness are related in the same way as Heaven and Hell.

One more that should have been included are Life and death - Both are eternal or neither are.