6:27-28 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
Love for Enemies
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
Very difficult!!!!!!! It's not easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
True Forgiveness
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_PAULESPINO
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:53 pm
Paidion,
Are you interested in talking about this anymore? I just finished reading Amish Grace and am anxious to discuss some of the concepts in that book. Perhaps this discussion has run its course, however. If so, so be it.
Are you interested in talking about this anymore? I just finished reading Amish Grace and am anxious to discuss some of the concepts in that book. Perhaps this discussion has run its course, however. If so, so be it.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Michelle, I still haven't purchased the book "Amish Grace", but I have read the basic account of what occurred.
All I can say at this point is that those people acted totally in the way Christ taught us ---- to love your enemies, to do good to those who despitefully use us, etc.
Many people call such behaviour indicitave of "forgiveness". But I still stand by my position that true forgiveness is a response to repentance.
I think it would be helpful for you to discuss the book on this forum. Many of us could learn a lot from the response of those dear people to the crime that was committed.
All I can say at this point is that those people acted totally in the way Christ taught us ---- to love your enemies, to do good to those who despitefully use us, etc.
Many people call such behaviour indicitave of "forgiveness". But I still stand by my position that true forgiveness is a response to repentance.
I think it would be helpful for you to discuss the book on this forum. Many of us could learn a lot from the response of those dear people to the crime that was committed.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Paidion wrote:
TK
in fact, i believe the book discusses the the distinction between forgiving someone (i.e. not harboring feelings of resentment) who has repented vs "forgiving" someone who has not, in which case they may be shunned. I dont have the book with me- when i do i'll find the quote.Many people call such behaviour indicitave of "forgiveness". But I still stand by my position that true forgiveness is a response to repentance.
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
TK, I didn't want to butt-in if you were going to post a quote, but you didn't come back for a day and a half, so here's one quote to get started:
"Amish forgiveness, like forgiveness in the outside world, can be offered regardless of whether an offender confesses, apologizes, or expresses remorse. Extended by the victim to the offender, it is an unconditional gift. Pardon, on the other hand, at least in the Christian tradition, requires repentance. The Amish believe that the church is responsible to God to hold member accountable to their baptismal vows. When a member transgresses the Ordnung, the church's regulations, he or she is given several chances to repent. Upon making a confession and accepting discipline, a member receives pardon from the church and is restored to full fellowship. If the person does not confess, the Amish, drawing on particular New Testament texts, practice shunning, with the goal of restoring an offender to full fellowship. Although shunning may seem inconsistent with forgiveness, it logically follows from the Amish view of spiritual care."
(page 142)
"Amish forgiveness, like forgiveness in the outside world, can be offered regardless of whether an offender confesses, apologizes, or expresses remorse. Extended by the victim to the offender, it is an unconditional gift. Pardon, on the other hand, at least in the Christian tradition, requires repentance. The Amish believe that the church is responsible to God to hold member accountable to their baptismal vows. When a member transgresses the Ordnung, the church's regulations, he or she is given several chances to repent. Upon making a confession and accepting discipline, a member receives pardon from the church and is restored to full fellowship. If the person does not confess, the Amish, drawing on particular New Testament texts, practice shunning, with the goal of restoring an offender to full fellowship. Although shunning may seem inconsistent with forgiveness, it logically follows from the Amish view of spiritual care."
(page 142)
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Reason:
thanks michelle!!
i found that exact quote last night, but you saved me from having to type it. would you be mad if that was my plan all along?
(j/k-- that really wasnt my plan-- but thanks!!).
TK
i found that exact quote last night, but you saved me from having to type it. would you be mad if that was my plan all along?
(j/k-- that really wasnt my plan-- but thanks!!).
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
Hey anytime, TK, I love to type. 
About the quote...are the authors of the book just using the terms in a different way than Paidion does? Is what the book calls forgiveness really what Paidion calls ... well I'm not sure...Christian love perhaps? And is what the book calls pardon actually what Paidion calls forgiveness? If so, does that make a whole lot of difference?
About the quote...are the authors of the book just using the terms in a different way than Paidion does? Is what the book calls forgiveness really what Paidion calls ... well I'm not sure...Christian love perhaps? And is what the book calls pardon actually what Paidion calls forgiveness? If so, does that make a whole lot of difference?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
my thought was that what the Amish calls "pardon" which is only granted with repentance and allows restoration of fellowship-- is what Paidion calls "forgiveness,"- but of course i can't speak for Paidion. he does an extremely admirable job on his own.
TK
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
Yes, Michelle and TK, I think you both have a good grasp of my understanding of "forgiveness", and I see God's forgiveness of us the same way. He grants a "pardon". It's not a matter of God no longer "harboring feelings of resentment." For God, unlike us, does not have such feelings toward people.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald