Steve's response to challenges raised by Mark & Dusman

[Guest]

Thanks for your responses but I am actually desiring to discuss these issues with Steve. I believe your responses did not address the "issues" adequately unfortunately.

You are speaking past me, for I do not deny that faith is not a work, nor that a man must of his own will actually believe and have faith.

That is "NOT" what I am discussing above, with all due respect.
You are not reading me right.

Blessings
Mark

[Guest]

Thanks for your responses but I am actually desiring to discuss these issues with Steve. I believe your responses did not address the "issues" adequately unfortunately.

You are speaking past me, for I do not deny that faith is not a work, nor that a man must of his own will actually believe and have faith.

Blessings
Mark

If a man must of his own will actually believe and have faith, then regeneration comes after this, because repentance preceeds salvation. But if regeneration causes and unrejectable belief, then it's God's doing, not man doing "on his own"

That is "NOT" what I am discussing above, with all due respect.
You are not reading me right.

Blessings
Mark

Sorry that I am the one at fault here. As you said to Steve "Again, you are so self absorbed. You see yourself as Judge, Jury and executioner."

Seems I am the only imperfect one here. I certainly did read you wrong, because you said I did.

"So your logic and plain reading of the words have been smashed."
To that I say: Let him who boasts, boast in ___ ____? Love is not proud.

Can we please stop the mud slinging? Their is enough on both sides! You have a problem with Steve's attitude yet you seem to be blind to your attitude. Lead by example, and not by his.

My point of my previous post was to show that while God is the cause of Grace. Man, killed by the law, must respond to God's regenerative call. Not be regenerated to respond to the call.

It is the means “through” which grace comes to an individual, but is not the cause any more than the cables are the cause of bringing power to your television. The cause is the power Company, ie God and his regenerating grace.

Yes but if you are sitting in the dark because you don't know to plug the light in to the line so that the "power Company, ie God and his regenerating grace " can come into (you) your house and a christian comes knocking on the door and says (the Gospel) plug in the light and you will recieve power from on high and you don't believe it (reject the gospel) then you will not be regenerated. If you believe the message and plug in, you recieve the power from God. The cables weren't the cause God and His Gospel (i.e. instuction manual) were, but you still have to respond. You can't be held responsible if you are not able to respond (John 3:16-21). God doesn't choose for you, or implant belief by regenerating prior to belief. if He chose for you, He wouldn't need the Gospel at all. We are able to respond, even while spiritually dead. That is the power of the Gospel. Grace comes through faith (belief), which is exactly what the Gospel tells you to do, to believe. Just as in the case of Acts 10.

That's my humble and maybe very wrong opinion.

[Guest]

Thank you LORD MY SALVATION IS COMPLETE IN CHRIST, HE IS MY RIGHTOUESNES HOLINESS STRENGTH AND LIFE

[Guest]

Salvation is complete only if you remain in Christ

[Guest]

How do you remain in Christ? Works of your flesh???????

Thank you Lord You have the ability to keep me from stumbling present me faultless at the presence of your GLORY blameless with great joy, you are my salvation and you will never leave me all the days of my life.
Every Blessing
John

[Guest]

John,
You are misunderstanding what Paul refers to as works of the flesh. Works of the flesh are not physical works, but the works of the Old Covenant. There are works that we are required to do in the New Covenant, like LOVE, if we do not do these works we prove that we are not in Christ, and therefore not (or no longer) saved.

Try reading James. Either James disagrees totally with Paul, or your definition of "works of the flesh" is wrong. You can decide for yourself.

You are right that God has the power to keep you, He will never leave you, nothing can snatch you from his hand. These statements are not meant to give assurance to the disobedient. The disobedient have no assurance. They are meant to assure the obedient that God cannot fail to do his part, but they still must be faithful.

Glenn

[Guest]

Glenn said

You are misunderstanding what Paul refers to as works of the flesh. Works of the flesh are not physical works, but the works of the Old Covenant. There are works that we are required to do in the New Covenant, like LOVE, if we do not do these works we prove that we are not in Christ, and therefore not (or no longer) saved

"Love one another as Christ loves you" Go on try, this is impossible only Christ can love this way. That is why we live "from" Him not "for Him"
Not living the Christian life from the indwelling Spirit of Him who is Life is called the flesh or self effort and that which is of the flesh is hoslie to God and can never please God
Christianity is not a belief system, but a person "Christ in you" this is the hope of Glory
Every Blessing
John

[Guest]

Greetings...No answer yet?

Blessings
Mark

http://p206.ezboard.com/bsonsofgod[/url]

[Guest]

Hi Mark,

Is your question meant only for Steve to answer?
And is your question/challenge from your post as follows?:

Grace is the cause that brings this about, and that then leads to faith.

Faith is the wires or cables that grace flows "through".
Faith is the result, not the cause of grace. That is why regeneration precedes faith.

You are falsely teaching that the “channel” itself ie Faith, is the cause of the Sophistication, to use your analogy.
It is not so.

It is the means “through” which grace comes to an individual, but is not the cause any more than the cables are the cause of bringing power to your television. The cause is the power Company, ie God and his regenerating grace.

So your logic and plain reading of the words have been smashed.

It is not logic or plain meaning of words here at stake, but rather a presuposition from you, to hold onto a libertarian free will theology that is driving your exegesis.

I will now let you respond, to either concede the point or defend your argument at this point. Please stick to this point only and your illustration and go nowhere else but these texts alone for now.

In Christ,

Richard

[Guest]

Hi..Yeah I am supposed to be discussing with Steve.
He must be busy..
Mark