Question about 1 Corinthians 5:5 and OSAS

Post by **_Sean** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:17 am

1 Cor 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I've heard people quote this as proof that you cannot loose your salvation. Even someone sent out of the Church and turned over to satan is still saved.

Comments?

Post by **_Jude** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:52 am

Dear Sean,

I do not think this text is strong proof for the biblical doctrine of the preseverance of the saints. Though it is in keeping with it. If the brother returns to the fold and dies in Christ, he has shown himself to be one of God's elect. If the chastisement of God through _ drives him back, great. Paul indicates that that should here be the case. If such a one should finally fall away (perhaps in another similiar case) he or she is an unrepentant covenant breaker, never decreed elect or truly to be saved to begin with. But outwardly saved, yes.

Jude

Post by **_eppsjason** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:46 pm

You have to read more than verse 5. Start at the beginning
1 Corinthians 5. Paul is speaking to church folk. The fornication he speaks of is not pertaining to unmarried people physically having sex. He uses "fornicators" as being symbolic of those who are not saved. When you get the old ways out of you, he is saying to keep them out. He is saying to not keep company with those who are not saved. This is in reference to the Gentiles. Gentiles not meaning anyone who is not a Jew, but in meaning anyone who is not saved. In the Old Testament, Jews are God's chosen people. Salvation was extended to Gentiles after Jesus' cruxifiction and raising from the dead, read Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Those that are "afar off" is referencing the Gentiles. Also read 1 Corinthians 15:33 "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners." Also read Acts 10 about Cornelius being filled with the Holy Ghost, he was a Gentile.

The scripture you asked about is actually giving the opposite meaning of what you said. It's saying that "once saved, always saved" is false, read 1 Timothy 4:1-3 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." Paul once again is talking to people who were saved and had repented, but went back to sin.

Also read Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Once again, church folk who repented and were saved, but went back to sin. Now they might as well be dead though they still live among us because God says they will not enter heaven.

May you be a hearer and doer of The Word

Post by **_Sean** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:26 pm

I still don't understand why (especially if this person is unsaved) it says "...for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved". It seems as if still *may* be saved even if his sin leads to the destruction of his flesh. Unless you mean his spirit may be saved if he repents and becomes saved.

Post by **_Steve** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:34 pm

I have always read Paul to be saying that the desired result of church discipline ("delivering him over to Satan") is that the man may be brought to repentance "that his spirit may be saved" in the end. This suggests that the man in question is not seen as being in a saved state at the time of the imposition of the discipline, but it is hoped that he will ultimately be saved as a result of it. In fact, the man under consideration was a grievous fornicator, and Paul says in the following chapter that no fornicator will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor.6:9-10).

There is no guarantee that the man will be saved through the recommended action—only a statement of the desired results of the discipline. It is as if I were to say, "You should give your children the very best education possible, so that they can be successful in their future vocations." Such a statement does not guarantee that the children will be successes because of their education, but only speaks of your intention for them in providing such an education.

A similar statement can be found at John 3:17—"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." This does not mean that the sending of Christ into the world guarantees the salvation of the world, but only that it was God's intention in sending His Son to save the world. The element of human free will still determines the outcome—both here and in 1 Corinthians 5:5.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:11 pm

So we have Gods intention and desire and wish verses mans freewill. Which will prevail in the end mans stupidity and pride verses Gods intentions? Well did'nt God answer this when Paul said "every tongue shall confess Jesus as Lord." But Paul said no one can say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit and with the Holy Spirit you are part of the Kingdom of God. As to prevailing in the end ,maybe the end is'nt in this life,maybe in the next age in the next place.