Total Depravity and the American Indian

_tartanarmy
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Post by _tartanarmy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:39 am

Thanks Sean, what a hypocrite you turned out to be. How you got all that is amazing to say the least. You think I tried to trap poor Steve? Man, what a joke!

Mark
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_Steve
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Post by _Steve » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:19 am

Hi Mark (since you are still here),

I believe that you profess to be a Christian. Is there any possibility that you could make that claim credible by behaving like one? Believe me, we would all be very relieved to learn that there is some reason for us to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Here's a clue (since you appear to need one): Being a Christian is not evidenced by the mere ability to recite memorized dogmas that are associated with one party of the Christian church. The real evidence can be found here: John 13:34-35/ 1 Cor.13:1-3.

While non-Christians are certainly allowed to post here, we are forbidden in scripture to associate with those who say they are "brothers", but who prove otherwise by the biblical tests of salvation (1 Cor.5:9-13). This duty impacts my impending decision whether or not to ban you from the forum.

You have been welcome to post here thus far, and I did delete one of your posts (which you have not stopped whining about) because you blatantly disregarded the standards for posting that I had just posted. You still disregard them. If you wish to continue here, behaving like other civilized believers, you are welcome to do so. However, if you answer this post in the manner that I expect you to, you will be deleted and banned. Think before you post.
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In Jesus,
Steve

_tartanarmy
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Post by _tartanarmy » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:50 am

While non-Christians are certainly allowed to post here, we are forbidden in scripture to associate with those who say they are "brothers", but who prove otherwise by the biblical tests of salvation (1 Cor.5:9-13). This duty impacts my impending decision whether or not to ban you from the forum.
I already know that Non-Christians are allowed to post here Steve, and I suppose you may think I do not get what you are alluding to here, but be that as it may.

Not only that, but their (Open Theism) views are encouraged here too!
And you are one of the main persons promoting it!

I tried, I tried, but you will not heed what I am saying.
You play with Open Theism at your own peril, and will answer for those whom you mislead.

You do what you need to do Steve.

Mark
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_JC
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Post by _JC » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:41 am

Hi, Mark. What's more important in the sight of God.... to hold the correct opinion about his foreknowledge or to keep one's word? Also, is it more important to understand all mysteries and have all knowledge or to love others with a good conscience?
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_tartanarmy
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Post by _tartanarmy » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:38 am

JC, Is there any point trying to reason with you?

Since you want to judge my "love" and my "conscience" what could I possibly say in return to such assertions?

And yes, defending God's Word and His character is way more important than me or my sin in some sense.

You should ask why no one is asking me to stay, and why the push to shove me out the door, or the callous disregard to love even me, and failing to cover my so called multitude of sins? Have I even come close to saying to Steve what he says to me? Seriously!

Am I really to believe the people here attacking my integrity really care about me or my integrity. I do not get that impression at all.

That actually concerns me more than me not keeping my word, for even if I am a pathetic sinner and a man with no shame or whatever else I am being called, I am here warning you guys about the serious errors of Open Theism, teaching which assaults the very being of the God we all say we worship etc. (Although Steve only gives me the right as one who professes to be a Christian! Man, how gracious is he?)

But yes, I have been convicted of my sin and would only ask you all to repent of your sins too.
My word should be important, and on that I failed to do what I should have done.

I think Steve ought to repent too, and those of you who did little to nothing to fix the situation between me and him, but decided to see wrong motives in me only, should repent too.

For me, I am loving you and others here in good conscience, and the Lord knows my heart and essential motives regarding that.

Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but Jehovah ponders the hearts.

1Co 11:19 For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you.
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_Steve
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Post by _Steve » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:41 pm

Mark,

You wrote:

"I think Steve ought to repent too, and those of you who did little to nothing to fix the situation between me and him, but decided to see wrong motives in me only, should repent too."

I am not sure what you think the "situation between [you] and [me]" may be, or what you would like for me to repent of. So far as I know, there is no personal matter between you and myself. My taking you to task has been about your behavior on the forum, and especially toward others here, with whom both you and I disagree.

You seem to be so full of yourself that you think it's all about you. You don't understand that you are not the center of everyone's universe, and that no one is interested in picking on you. We just want you to bring the same civility to the discussion as we require of everyone else (and which everyone else observes).

I know you will explode again and say that I am treating you unjustly and speaking uncharitably toward you. However, I am trying to give you some clues as to how to remain among us. You simply choose to remain clueless.
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In Jesus,
Steve

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_JC
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Post by _JC » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:09 pm

Mark, I have no desire for you to leave so long as we can lose the melodramatic outbursts. Steve has been quite stern with you but I know him to be a patient man. Have you heard some of the callers he has to deal with... for crying out loud. Steve moderates this forum so I'll let him dictate the rules of engagement. As part of Steve's authoritative duties, he's called to protect believers in this community from those seeking to promote strife. I've seen more charity given by non-believers on this forum.

Seriously, I'd like nothing more than to fellowship with you and engage your ideas. I don't hold to open theism but I'll at least give them a fair hearing because Greg Boyd, Paidion and several others strike me as genuine brothers in the Lord. If we don't engage one another in this way, we've taken on a cult-like mentality. You have no reason to be threatened by an open theist who is bearing fruit and loves the Lord. Isn't that the real requirment for fellowship, Mark?
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_Homer
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Post by _Homer » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:33 am

Mark,

You wrote:
And yes, defending God's Word and His character is way more important than me or my sin in some sense.
First let me say my desire is not to attack you but to discuss your ideas as principles in general.

Does God need us to defend Him?

Acts 17:25 (New American Standard Bible): 25. nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

I'm not sure He needs us to "defend Him" so much as not to cause unbelief by how we relate to our brothers and sisters in Christ:

John 17:20-23 (New American Standard Bible)

20."I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;
21. that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22."The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;
23.I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

We will never, in this world, completely agree on matters of doctrine, however, we can be united in our love for one another and in our efforts to follow Jesus.

I have no desire to see you leave the forum but I would like to see you exhibit a gentle spirit. I have disputed with Paidion vehemently on some things (very long discussions!) and agreed heartily with him on others. He has consistently exhibited a Christian spirit. It would help much if we all did the same.

We need to think of how we appear to the unbelievers who visit here, as well as those weak in the faith, and those interested in spiritual things. We are "God's letter."
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_tartanarmy
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Post by _tartanarmy » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:07 am

I guess we all just think differently. I am not trying to be melodramatic or the centre of the universe or clueless (Steve, do you get some kind of kick out of these kinds of accusations? I am not here for your taunts.)

No doubt that will be read as just another "explosion" right?

Listen guys, if you want to have fellowship with Open Theists, then fine, but I will simply not take up the offer to do so.
Even if they are Christians, they ought to be disciplined for their own good and the good of the Church, but I know such ideas will not go down well here, so I guess I have no more to say, for I hear you all loud and clear.

And if he has a Christian spirit Homer, why does he take pot/cheap shots at me when others (usually Steve) comes down negatively on me (which is just about every post to me!)

And Steve, you do need to repent. You made a meal of me keeping my word and turned it into a big negative for me, backing me into a corner in a sense, and yet you yourself broke your word when you decided to post and interact with me after you said you were done. How come you get the free pass? How come no one calls you out for that?

I know I will not be believed, but have the last word.

In His precious name
Mark
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