Hello everyone!
This is my first post here and I hope this isn't something you have had to answer too often, but the first time I read Jesus' answer to the question...
"Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
...with...
Mark 14:62 "I AM," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
...I made the connection to...
Exodus 3: 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
... Well, I thought this was an incredible and absolute claiming of His being God. It seemed like he was answering their question by stating His "name" so to speak. It seemed so perfect.
Then I discovered the same story accounted in Matthew and it seemed to take the steam out of it, with the answer now quoted as...
Matthew 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
...Granted, it is still a claim to His identity, but it lacks the punch of "I AM".
It seems that I have made too much of Mark's account, or perhaps Matthew didn't "get it" the way Mark did?
Does anyone know how Jesus spoke the answer in early original language editions before translation and paraphrase?
I appreciate any help you can provide me with this.
Eddie
A question about "I AM"
A question about "I AM"
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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_kaufmannphillips
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reply to EddieK
Hello, Eddie,
Thank you for your posting and your inquiry. Please accept the following for what it is worth.
(aleph) There are less than a dozen manuscript sources for Mark that roughly parallel the formula in Matthew: "You say that I am." Matthew simply states "You say" or "You said"; the verb is aorist, which gives no indication as to past or present tense. The translation you quoted - "Yes, it is as you say" - is not strictly literal, and tendentious.
The earliest of these manuscripts have been dated to the ninth century. By casual assessment, in light of the manuscripts' age and limited number, it seems likely that these manuscripts were simply harmonizing (intentionally or unconsciously) with the Matthean form. This kind of cross-pollenation is not that unusual in gospel manuscripts. So we may treat the two gospel versions as differing accounts.
One could introduce viable arguments for why either reading has a more likely claim on being closest to what Jesus actually said. Based on context, Mark appears to bear priority. Mark has the high priest speak of "the Blessed One," whereas Matthew simply has him speak of "God"; Mark's diction seems more Jewish and more precise. Matthew also has the priest adjure Jesus by the living God, which seems like it could be an ornamental augment to the narrative.
Beyond this, though, we may grapple with the question of Jesus' evasiveness under examination. Mark describes a straightforward answer, while Matthew opens the door to some evasion, and Luke and John clearly portray evasion. One might consider the straightforward response to be the less historical, as more satisfying to the reader, but on the other hand, the evasive motif may have developed as a way of highlighting the injustice of Jesus' condemnation.
(beth) The statement you have cited from Exodus 3 is actually in the Hebrew imperfect. Although most translations render it in the vein of "I am what I am," it might also be rendered "I will be what I will be" or "I am being what I am being." The imperfect is very often rendered into English as future tense, but we may acknowledge a broader range of possibility here. The important grammatical implication, I suppose, is that said "be"-ing is not static, but dynamic.
(gymel) The significance of this carries over to its rendering in the Septuagint (the standard Greek translation of the Hebrew bible, until widespread Christian usage of it prompted Jewish communities to disown it). The Septuagint reads "I am the be-ing one," putting the verb into a participial form. This seems not so bad an effort to express the Hebrew imperfect in a Greek grammatical form.
The Greek phrase in the Septuagint, then, is ego eimi ho on (= I * am * the * be-ing one).
What is interesting in light of your inquiry is that in the restatement found in the latter part of the verse (viz., "Thus you will say to the sons of Israel: 'I will be' has sent me to you"), the Septuagint does not say ego eimi (= I * am), but rather ho on (= the * be-ing one). As such, the Septuagint makes ho on the short-form of the divine declaration, and not ego eimi.
Such a precedent in the Septuagint does not close the issue, but it is worth noting that this prominent Greek tradition would have lacked so direct a parallel as that found in our English translations.
(daleth) As for ego eimi, it is a simple and common construct in Greek, just as it is in English - used freely without any normal implication of divine identity. If someone were to ask me "Are you the son of William and Randa?", I might answer "I am" without the slightest concern for blasphemy (cf. John 9:9).
Accordingly, we may recommend caution at reading too much into the statement in Mark, where Jesus is giving a response to a direct question - "Are you the anointed one, the son of the Blessed One?" This could be answered as a messianic question, pure and simple; both anointing and divine sonship were images applied to the Davidic king (e.g., Solomon, q.v., I Kings 1:39 & I Chronicles 22:10).
(hey) It is interesting to ask, however, whether the Jewish leaders are being portrayed as construing Jesus' ego eimi as a claim to divinity. In Mark 14:64, the high priest accuses Jesus of blasphemy. This is curious, inasmuch as Jesus' answer, strictly speaking, is not blasphemous. So Mark may be portraying Jesus' ego eimi as the pretext for his condemnation by the Jewish leaders. But the introduction of such a pretext need not carry over to understanding Jesus' answer as an actual claim to divinity.
In the synoptic parallels, it appears that the claim to be a "son of God" might be the pretext (q.v., Luke 22:70, which highlights this point by slight narrative disattachment; Matthew is more vague, but appears to lack another pretext; John plainly omits Jesus' self-testimony before the Jewish leadership). As noted above, such a statement on Jesus' part would not necessarily constitute a claim to divinity, either.
One may ask whether the synoptic evangelists wished to portray the Jewish leaders as taking offense to an actual claim to divinity by Jesus, or rather as miscarriers of justice, grasping at straws in order to condemn him. At any rate, we have some muddling betwixt the sources concerning this phase of the passion, so we may be cautious about making too much of a theological argument from the evidence at hand.
Shalom,
Emmet
P. S.: edited twice, rather promptly...
Thank you for your posting and your inquiry. Please accept the following for what it is worth.
(aleph) There are less than a dozen manuscript sources for Mark that roughly parallel the formula in Matthew: "You say that I am." Matthew simply states "You say" or "You said"; the verb is aorist, which gives no indication as to past or present tense. The translation you quoted - "Yes, it is as you say" - is not strictly literal, and tendentious.
The earliest of these manuscripts have been dated to the ninth century. By casual assessment, in light of the manuscripts' age and limited number, it seems likely that these manuscripts were simply harmonizing (intentionally or unconsciously) with the Matthean form. This kind of cross-pollenation is not that unusual in gospel manuscripts. So we may treat the two gospel versions as differing accounts.
One could introduce viable arguments for why either reading has a more likely claim on being closest to what Jesus actually said. Based on context, Mark appears to bear priority. Mark has the high priest speak of "the Blessed One," whereas Matthew simply has him speak of "God"; Mark's diction seems more Jewish and more precise. Matthew also has the priest adjure Jesus by the living God, which seems like it could be an ornamental augment to the narrative.
Beyond this, though, we may grapple with the question of Jesus' evasiveness under examination. Mark describes a straightforward answer, while Matthew opens the door to some evasion, and Luke and John clearly portray evasion. One might consider the straightforward response to be the less historical, as more satisfying to the reader, but on the other hand, the evasive motif may have developed as a way of highlighting the injustice of Jesus' condemnation.
(beth) The statement you have cited from Exodus 3 is actually in the Hebrew imperfect. Although most translations render it in the vein of "I am what I am," it might also be rendered "I will be what I will be" or "I am being what I am being." The imperfect is very often rendered into English as future tense, but we may acknowledge a broader range of possibility here. The important grammatical implication, I suppose, is that said "be"-ing is not static, but dynamic.
(gymel) The significance of this carries over to its rendering in the Septuagint (the standard Greek translation of the Hebrew bible, until widespread Christian usage of it prompted Jewish communities to disown it). The Septuagint reads "I am the be-ing one," putting the verb into a participial form. This seems not so bad an effort to express the Hebrew imperfect in a Greek grammatical form.
The Greek phrase in the Septuagint, then, is ego eimi ho on (= I * am * the * be-ing one).
What is interesting in light of your inquiry is that in the restatement found in the latter part of the verse (viz., "Thus you will say to the sons of Israel: 'I will be' has sent me to you"), the Septuagint does not say ego eimi (= I * am), but rather ho on (= the * be-ing one). As such, the Septuagint makes ho on the short-form of the divine declaration, and not ego eimi.
Such a precedent in the Septuagint does not close the issue, but it is worth noting that this prominent Greek tradition would have lacked so direct a parallel as that found in our English translations.
(daleth) As for ego eimi, it is a simple and common construct in Greek, just as it is in English - used freely without any normal implication of divine identity. If someone were to ask me "Are you the son of William and Randa?", I might answer "I am" without the slightest concern for blasphemy (cf. John 9:9).
Accordingly, we may recommend caution at reading too much into the statement in Mark, where Jesus is giving a response to a direct question - "Are you the anointed one, the son of the Blessed One?" This could be answered as a messianic question, pure and simple; both anointing and divine sonship were images applied to the Davidic king (e.g., Solomon, q.v., I Kings 1:39 & I Chronicles 22:10).
(hey) It is interesting to ask, however, whether the Jewish leaders are being portrayed as construing Jesus' ego eimi as a claim to divinity. In Mark 14:64, the high priest accuses Jesus of blasphemy. This is curious, inasmuch as Jesus' answer, strictly speaking, is not blasphemous. So Mark may be portraying Jesus' ego eimi as the pretext for his condemnation by the Jewish leaders. But the introduction of such a pretext need not carry over to understanding Jesus' answer as an actual claim to divinity.
In the synoptic parallels, it appears that the claim to be a "son of God" might be the pretext (q.v., Luke 22:70, which highlights this point by slight narrative disattachment; Matthew is more vague, but appears to lack another pretext; John plainly omits Jesus' self-testimony before the Jewish leadership). As noted above, such a statement on Jesus' part would not necessarily constitute a claim to divinity, either.
One may ask whether the synoptic evangelists wished to portray the Jewish leaders as taking offense to an actual claim to divinity by Jesus, or rather as miscarriers of justice, grasping at straws in order to condemn him. At any rate, we have some muddling betwixt the sources concerning this phase of the passion, so we may be cautious about making too much of a theological argument from the evidence at hand.
Shalom,
Emmet
P. S.: edited twice, rather promptly...
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Thank you,
Thank you kaufmannphillips,
This response is just what I hoped for. I am still learning the Bible in English and have yet to tackle it in source languages, but I recognize the source material will need to be tackled at some point. That was the basis for my question.
I have only been following after Christ since 2003 and before I discovered the truth, much of what scared me away from the Bible was seeing so many believers mangle it so badly.
I remember a Christian friend of mine defend war by "quoting" Jesus as saying, "God bless the peacekeepers" which she understood as God bless soldiers.
I explained that it might be peace makers and that peacekeepers was a modern day term which did not mean what Jesus meant.
Well, as I talk to people and try to spread the word, I don't want to rush out with things like this that I do not understand. The last thing I want to do is turn someone's back on God because I misrepresent the truth.
I wondered if the "I AM" thing might be an English only misunderstanding. I figured it would be good to find out how it was actually presented in the earliest forms possible to see if the issue has been debated historically or if it was a modern day only issue.
Thank you for taking the time to answer this with such detail. You present some very difficult information in a very digestible form.
Thank you.
This response is just what I hoped for. I am still learning the Bible in English and have yet to tackle it in source languages, but I recognize the source material will need to be tackled at some point. That was the basis for my question.
I have only been following after Christ since 2003 and before I discovered the truth, much of what scared me away from the Bible was seeing so many believers mangle it so badly.
I remember a Christian friend of mine defend war by "quoting" Jesus as saying, "God bless the peacekeepers" which she understood as God bless soldiers.
I explained that it might be peace makers and that peacekeepers was a modern day term which did not mean what Jesus meant.
Well, as I talk to people and try to spread the word, I don't want to rush out with things like this that I do not understand. The last thing I want to do is turn someone's back on God because I misrepresent the truth.
I wondered if the "I AM" thing might be an English only misunderstanding. I figured it would be good to find out how it was actually presented in the earliest forms possible to see if the issue has been debated historically or if it was a modern day only issue.
Thank you for taking the time to answer this with such detail. You present some very difficult information in a very digestible form.
Thank you.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
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_kaufmannphillips
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:25 pm
- Location: SW Washington
reply to EddieK
Hello, Eddie,
Thank you for your kind response.
Perhaps some of the other participants in this forum will add their comments. In fair disclosure, I come at the issue as a non-Christian religious scholar, and the believers often bring different perspectives.
I encourage you to act on your recognition that tackling the source materials will be necessary as you continue in your study of the bible. Along the way, you may discover some things that are distressing, but that is a constant risk in searching out truth.
Even more importantly, please allow me to encourage you to maintain a firm basis for your relationship with God in regular prayer. The bible is at best a tool that helps facilitate relationship with God. Prayerful intimacy with God will help you understand the bible more accurately, and will anchor you so that you are less in danger of losing the relationship, should you encounter difficulties with the tool.
Thank you again for your gracious reply.
Shalom,
Emmet
Thank you for your kind response.
Perhaps some of the other participants in this forum will add their comments. In fair disclosure, I come at the issue as a non-Christian religious scholar, and the believers often bring different perspectives.
I encourage you to act on your recognition that tackling the source materials will be necessary as you continue in your study of the bible. Along the way, you may discover some things that are distressing, but that is a constant risk in searching out truth.
Even more importantly, please allow me to encourage you to maintain a firm basis for your relationship with God in regular prayer. The bible is at best a tool that helps facilitate relationship with God. Prayerful intimacy with God will help you understand the bible more accurately, and will anchor you so that you are less in danger of losing the relationship, should you encounter difficulties with the tool.
Thank you again for your gracious reply.
Shalom,
Emmet
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Just a little addition to what kaufmannphillips has said:
The Greek expression "egō eimi" Literally means "I, I am", so that the pronoun "I' is emphasized.
Here are all or most of the occurences of it in the New Testament. You can see that in most, if not all, of the occurrences, the phrase is used in a very ordinary way.
Matthew 14:27 But immediately he spoke to them, saying, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
Matthew 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
Matthew 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.
Matthew 26:22 And they were very sorrowful, and began to say to him one after another, "Is it I, Lord?"
Matthew 26:25 Judas, who betrayed him, said, "Is it I, Master?" He said to him, "You have said so."
Mark 6:50 for they all saw him, and were terrified. But immediately he spoke to them and said, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
Mark 13:6 Many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and they will lead many astray.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."
Luke 1:19 And the angel answered him, "I am Gabriel, who stand in the presence of God; and I was sent to speak to you, and to bring you this good news.
Luke 21:8 And he said, "Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.
Luke 22:70 And they all said, "Are you the Son of God, then?" And he said to them, "You say that I am."
Luke 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have."
John 4:26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he."
John 6:20 but he said to them, "It is I; do not be afraid."
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.
John 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, "I am the bread which came down from heaven."
John 6:48 I am the bread of life.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."
John 8:12 ¶ Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he."
John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
John 9:9 Some said, "It is he"; others said, "No, but he is like him." He said, "I am the man."
John 10:7 So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
John 10:9 I am the door; if any one enters by me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
John 13:19 I tell you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
John 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
John 18:5 They answered him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus said to them, "I am he." Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
John 18:6 When he said to them, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.
John 18:8 Jesus answered, "I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go."
Acts 9:5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting;
Acts 10:21 And Peter went down to the men and said, "I am the one you are looking for; what is the reason for your coming?"
Acts 18:10 for I am with you, and no man shall attack you to harm you; for I have many people in this city."
Acts 22:3 ¶ "I am a Jew, born at Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, educated according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you all are this day.
Acts 22:8 And I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you are persecuting.’
Acts 26:15 And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
Acts 26:29 And Paul said, "Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am—except for these chains."
Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last,
Revelation 2:23 and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.
Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star."
The Greek expression "egō eimi" Literally means "I, I am", so that the pronoun "I' is emphasized.
Here are all or most of the occurences of it in the New Testament. You can see that in most, if not all, of the occurrences, the phrase is used in a very ordinary way.
Matthew 14:27 But immediately he spoke to them, saying, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
Matthew 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
Matthew 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.
Matthew 26:22 And they were very sorrowful, and began to say to him one after another, "Is it I, Lord?"
Matthew 26:25 Judas, who betrayed him, said, "Is it I, Master?" He said to him, "You have said so."
Mark 6:50 for they all saw him, and were terrified. But immediately he spoke to them and said, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
Mark 13:6 Many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and they will lead many astray.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."
Luke 1:19 And the angel answered him, "I am Gabriel, who stand in the presence of God; and I was sent to speak to you, and to bring you this good news.
Luke 21:8 And he said, "Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.
Luke 22:70 And they all said, "Are you the Son of God, then?" And he said to them, "You say that I am."
Luke 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have."
John 4:26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he."
John 6:20 but he said to them, "It is I; do not be afraid."
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.
John 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, "I am the bread which came down from heaven."
John 6:48 I am the bread of life.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."
John 8:12 ¶ Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he."
John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
John 9:9 Some said, "It is he"; others said, "No, but he is like him." He said, "I am the man."
John 10:7 So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
John 10:9 I am the door; if any one enters by me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
John 13:19 I tell you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
John 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
John 18:5 They answered him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus said to them, "I am he." Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
John 18:6 When he said to them, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.
John 18:8 Jesus answered, "I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go."
Acts 9:5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting;
Acts 10:21 And Peter went down to the men and said, "I am the one you are looking for; what is the reason for your coming?"
Acts 18:10 for I am with you, and no man shall attack you to harm you; for I have many people in this city."
Acts 22:3 ¶ "I am a Jew, born at Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, educated according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you all are this day.
Acts 22:8 And I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you are persecuting.’
Acts 26:15 And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
Acts 26:29 And Paul said, "Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am—except for these chains."
Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last,
Revelation 2:23 and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.
Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star."
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Tit 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
I doubt any on earth know the meaning that was written in the first writings. i think many mean well who gives us the answers to the greek word meanings . God has already told us , wee fail at times. these men who give the meaning of the greek in these other books are no different than any of us. meaning they have done there best , but i would think have come up short.
GOD in HIS great wisdom saw all this on the earth before the earth was made and gave us a part of HIM to teach and guide us if we are WILLING???
many have gotten up set with me , because i do not count strong or any others as having written perfect truth and understanding for these greekl or Hebrew words.
many base there lives on these guys writings. i do not. i do think they could help many times?
THE GREATEST gift GOD could give HIS children was to give them a part of HIM.
And if we want more of HIS Holy Spirit? We just ask! But of course few use HIS Holy Spirit much? Why would they seek to have more of HIM?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
I told HIM, I want Every Heavenly gift i am able to receive and if there is a way to be changed FATHER GOD, That I could receive more? Change me LORD!
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
Of course if we do not ASK? We will not receive!
I hope this blesses someone?
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Tit 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
I doubt any on earth know the meaning that was written in the first writings. i think many mean well who gives us the answers to the greek word meanings . God has already told us , wee fail at times. these men who give the meaning of the greek in these other books are no different than any of us. meaning they have done there best , but i would think have come up short.
GOD in HIS great wisdom saw all this on the earth before the earth was made and gave us a part of HIM to teach and guide us if we are WILLING???
many have gotten up set with me , because i do not count strong or any others as having written perfect truth and understanding for these greekl or Hebrew words.
many base there lives on these guys writings. i do not. i do think they could help many times?
THE GREATEST gift GOD could give HIS children was to give them a part of HIM.
And if we want more of HIS Holy Spirit? We just ask! But of course few use HIS Holy Spirit much? Why would they seek to have more of HIM?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
I told HIM, I want Every Heavenly gift i am able to receive and if there is a way to be changed FATHER GOD, That I could receive more? Change me LORD!
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
Of course if we do not ASK? We will not receive!
I hope this blesses someone?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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