Can James And Paul Be Reconciled?

[Guest]

Can James be reconciled to the doctrine of Sola Fide?

James 2:24: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

The only place we find the the idea of by faith alone we find the statement that one can not be justified by faith alone. Why don't we take James' statement at face value?

[Guest]

I actually believe James, Paul and Jesus are saying the same thing.

Jesus said: "But why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do the things which I say" (Luke 6:46)

"Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord shsll enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matt 7:21)

Paul says:
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." (Gal 5:6)

A working of love is:
"Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. (1 Cor 13:4-8)

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:15-17) This is an example of a said faith that has no real compassion (work of love) on the poor/starving.

Someone bearing the fruit of the Spirit:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Gal 5:22-25)

Someone exhibiting a said faith but have no works is showing that they have not been born again. A persons actions stem from the heart. If the heart is pure, then the actions will be too. I don't think James is speaking of the mosaic law, but the law of love.

[Guest]

I am not sure that the doctrine of Sola Fide can be reconciled with James and Paul and Peter and Jesus and the prophets and the whole testimony of scripture. Sola Fide is a Reformation doctrine and I understand that Luther was trying to respond the the putrid Catholicism of his day, so much so that he went to the other extreme. I have read that Luther wasn't a fan of the book of James; he even argued for its exclusion from the cannon of scripture. The Christian faith to me is a "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately" kind of faith. It is a proove it. CHrist told the apostles to go around and teach OBEDIENCE to all that He commanded. Obedience is a necessary requirement. It is in this modern age that we tend to forget that Obedience is better than Sacrifice. We line people up, have them repeat after the evangelist, rinse, and ta-da! instant Christian. Mental assent or verbal agreement isn't what God is looking for. Obedience is still key, and we obey because we believe and because we love Him. If Sola Fide doesn't jive with James, Paul, Peter, the prophets, the whole council of scripture, the witness of the early church pre-Constantine, and what Christ himself, guess which one doesn't make the cut and should be tossed? Regards, Anon

[Guest]

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:15-17) This is an example of a said faith that has no real compassion (work of love) on the poor/starving.


Thanks for the reply Sean, but...


2:24: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Is the faith in the above text "said" faith or genuine faith?

[Guest]

I am not sure that the doctrine of Sola Fide can be reconciled with James and Paul and Peter and Jesus and the prophets and the whole testimony of scripture. Sola Fide is a Reformation doctrine and I understand that Luther was trying to respond the the putrid Catholicism of his day, so much so that he went to the other extreme. I have read that Luther wasn't a fan of the book of James; he even argued for its exclusion from the cannon of scripture. The Christian faith to me is a "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately" kind of faith. It is a proove it. CHrist told the apostles to go around and teach OBEDIENCE to all that He commanded. Obedience is a necessary requirement. It is in this modern age that we tend to forget that Obedience is better than Sacrifice. We line people up, have them repeat after the evangelist, rinse, and ta-da! instant Christian. Mental assent or verbal agreement isn't what God is looking for. Obedience is still key, and we obey because we believe and because we love Him. If Sola Fide doesn't jive with James, Paul, Peter, the prophets, the whole council of scripture, the witness of the early church pre-Constantine, and what Christ himself, guess which one doesn't make the cut and should be tossed? Regards, Anon

You are correct Anon. You do not find the doctrine of Sola Fide taught in any creed or church council for the first 1500 years of the church. Although I'am not sure that Sole Fide does not jive with Paul - especially in Romans 4:1-8

[Guest]

I have never really seen the problem that many (including Luther) profess to see in harmonizing James and Paul, or Jesus and Paul. All of the biblical witnesses agree (as Sean has shown above) that true faith must produce works of charity and obedience, or else it is worthless with respect to salvation. Paul is as adamant as is any biblical writer on this point (1 Cor.6:9-10/Gal.5:6, 19-21/ Eph.2:10/ Titus 2:11-14; 3:1, 8). Also, all the witnesses agree that it is faith, not works, which ultimately places a man in the category of the righteous in God's sight (Luke 18:13-14; 23:42-43/ Rom.4:2-4/ James 2:23). I think the doctrine of scripture is consistent regardless which writer one wishes to consult.

The confusion comes in dealing with James' affirmation that "Abraham our father [was] justified by works...You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only" (2:21, 24). I am sure that James had no idea how unfortunate his choice of words would prove to be for later readers, placing his statement in juxtaposition with those of Paul, like, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law" (Rom.3:28). I don't think that James' readers were likely to have been readers of Paul, since James addressed his epistle to Jewish believers (1:1), whereas Paul's letters were written to predominantly Gentile congregations. Thus, I doubt that James was deliberately setting up his teaching as a corrective or a contrast to Paul's. If he was, then he might have been trying to place a balance on some people's misconstruction of Paul's meaning.

Paul's purpose, when discussing such things, was to refute the judaizers who were trying to impose Jewish ceremonial law on Gentile believers. Paul, quite agreeably with James and Jesus, emphasized that it is a relationship with God, based upon faith, that saves—not the keeping of Jewish (or any other) ceremonies. James never contradicts this—nor does Jesus.

James is clearly reacting to an antinomian ("no rules") approach to justification by faith. Whether this antinomianism was someone's wrong reaction to Paul's teaching (Paul anticipated this himself—Rom.3:8; 6:1, 15), or whether it was just the result of corrupt human nature looking for license (Jude 4), we may never know. The point is that, however unfortunately his choice of words may compare against Paul's, both men had exactly the same doctrine. It would require a penchant for "striving about words" and a failure to recognise the teachings of these two men to find contradiction here.

"Sola fide" is obviously woefully reductionistic as a summary of the biblical teaching of salvation, and there is more to the concept of salvation than merely "justification." If the expression "sola fide" is a stumblingblock, there is no biblical mandate that we continue using it. However, both James and Paul (as well as the Old Testament) teach that "Abraham believed...and it was imputed to him for righteousness" (Gen.15:6/ Rom.4:3/ James 2:23). That this believing was inseparable from works of obedience, but was independant of circumcision and other Jewish rituals, is also the consistent testimony of all the biblical witnesses (Rom.4:16-22/ Hebrews 11:8, 17/ James 2:21-23).

[Guest]

"Sola fide" is obviously woefully reductionistic as a summary of the biblical teaching of salvation, and there is more to the concept of salvation than merely "justification." If the expression "sola fide" is a stumblingblock, there is no biblical mandate that we continue using it. However, both James and Paul (as well as the Old Testament) teach that "Abraham believed...and it was imputed to him for righteousness" (Gen.15:6/ Rom.4:3/ James 2:23). That this believing was inseparable from works of obedience, but was independant of circumcision and other Jewish rituals, is also the consistent testimony of all the biblical witnesses (Rom.4:16-22/ Hebrews 11:8, 17/ James 2:21-23).


Thanks for the reply Steve. But I'am a bit confused - is faith alone your position? I mean was Paul teaching justification by faith alone and was James teaching justification by faith and works? I mean, no matter who they were speaking to, Paul seems to be teaching justification by faith alone in Rom. 4 and James seems to be clealy teaching justification by both faith and works. Did I miss something?

[Guest]

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:15-17) This is an example of a said faith that has no real compassion (work of love) on the poor/starving.


Thanks for the reply Sean, but...


2:24: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Is the faith in the above text "said" faith or genuine faith?

I'm not sure what you mean. James 2:24 speaks of "real" faith. And yes, man is justified by works, so to speak.

Matthew 12:37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

The point Paul makes is that we are not justified before God by works of the mosaic law.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

"Doing" the mosaic law doesn't make you justified (not guilty) in God's sight. This was never the intent of the law.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law brings knowledge of sin, leading to Godly sorrow and repentance, which leads us to Christ.

Paul is teaching his Gentile and Jewish listeners that we are not justified in God's sight by keeping the law. (Rom 4:2) James concern is different:

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James is talking about our perception of others proclaimed faith. If someone proclaims to have faith, yet does not walk in love then they have actually proven not to have true faith. Faith isn't a mental acknowledgement of the facts (James 2:19), it's a true trusting in the gospel of the kingdom, trust in God Himself (Rom 4:18-22). Now, if someone lives their live with a proclaimed faith, yet their actions deny their commitment to God, then they are not possessing a saving faith.

Paul sums this up nicely in Titus 1:16 "They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work."

Paul's focus (in his often quoted verses used in "faith alone" arguments) is to keep the burden of the Jewish/Mosaic law from being placed as a yoke on the Gentiles (Acts 15:10), and to show how we are initially justified before God. James focus (in James 2:24) is to warn people that a mere profession of faith is not enough to save. True fruit in the form of works of love (not mosaic law works) is manifest only in those who truly have a saving faith. And since we will all be judged, I personally believe works will easily determine the saved, because their "faith" and "works" are working together. Leaving some that will cry "LORD, LORD!"

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matt 7:21)

[Guest]

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:15-17) This is an example of a said faith that has no real compassion (work of love) on the poor/starving.


Thanks for the reply Sean, but...


2:24: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Is the faith in the above text "said" faith or genuine faith?

I'm not sure what you mean. James 2:24 speaks of "real" faith. And yes, man is justified by works, so to speak.

Matthew 12:37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

The point Paul makes is that we are not justified before God by works of the mosaic law.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

"Doing" the mosaic law doesn't make you justified (not guilty) in God's sight. This was never the intent of the law.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law brings knowledge of sin, leading to Godly sorrow and repentance, which leads us to Christ.

Paul is teaching his Gentile and Jewish listeners that we are not justified in God's sight by keeping the law. (Rom 4:2) James concern is different:

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James is talking about our perception of others proclaimed faith. If someone proclaims to have faith, yet does not walk in love then they have actually proven not to have true faith. Faith isn't a mental acknowledgement of the facts (James 2:19), it's a true trusting in the gospel of the kingdom, trust in God Himself (Rom 4:18-22). Now, if someone lives their live with a proclaimed faith, yet their actions deny their commitment to God, then they are not possessing a saving faith.

Paul sums this up nicely in Titus 1:16 "They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work."

Paul's focus (in his often quoted verses used in "faith alone" arguments) is to keep the burden of the Jewish/Mosaic law from being placed as a yoke on the Gentiles (Acts 15:10), and to show how we are initially justified before God. James focus (in James 2:24) is to warn people that a mere profession of faith is not enough to save. True fruit in the form of works of love (not mosaic law works) is manifest only in those who truly have a saving faith. And since we will all be judged, I personally believe works will easily determine the saved, because their "faith" and "works" are working together. Leaving some that will cry "LORD, LORD!"

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matt 7:21)

Sean, I'am not sure what you are getting at. Are works (any works) necessary for justification?

[Guest]

Sean, I'am not sure what you are getting at. Are works (any works) necessary for justification?

Are you looking for a simple yes or no answer? You won't find one from me, because I don't know your motive for your question.

Here's my point:
If I say works are necessary for justification then one could quote:

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us

If I say they are not necessary for justification then one could quote:

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

So it's not a simple yes or no answer, the answer is found in Abraham.

Look up the quote(s) that both James and Paul use. What happends first.

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

When did this happen? Was it before or after Abraham offered Isaac on the altar? (This is the evidence James uses in James 2:21)
It was before. So Abraham was first justified when he believed God, before he offered Isaac on the altar. His works also justify him, as they attest to his faith in God, demonstarated in Gen 15:6.

It's not an either or question for me, it's what comes first. God's Grace comes first, not our works. Once we have recieved Grace through faith, our faith and our works are inseperable. So, when we stand before the judgement seat of Christ, we will be justified (or condemned) by our works, since they follow directly from our faith (or lack thereof).

Does that help?

In case you are wondering, I don't even know for sure what the doctrine of Sola Fide is (although I have a pretty good idea). I'm not "reformed". So I may not be the right person to answer your question.