It seems the term "regeneration" has a very specific meaning in Reformed Theology. I understand Calvinists to refer to "regeneration" as the act of God that makes the previously "unregernerate" person "alive" and enables them to express faith. (Maybe my understanding is all wrong. If so, straighten me out.)
My concern is that this understanding comes not from a natural reading of scripture, but is a paradigm that is forced upon the scripture.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand the term translated "regeneration" occurs only in Titus 3 and Matthew 18.
What other scriptures, and terms synonumous with "regenration" should I look at to develop an understanding of "regeneration?"
Thanks.
What does the Bible say about regeneration?
What does the Bible say about regeneration?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Hi SamIam,
I believe you will find that most of us, Calvinist or otherwise, would agree that the term "regeneration," though seldom used in scripture, is essentially synonymous with being "born again" or "passing from death to life," or simply coming to possess "a new heart," a "new spirit" and "eternal life."
The main point of difference I have observed among the participants here would be:
a) whether this is a sudden event of rebirth, or a protracted process (like conception, gestation and birth); and
b) whether this event must occur before the sinner can repent and believe the gospel.
I believe you will find that most of us, Calvinist or otherwise, would agree that the term "regeneration," though seldom used in scripture, is essentially synonymous with being "born again" or "passing from death to life," or simply coming to possess "a new heart," a "new spirit" and "eternal life."
The main point of difference I have observed among the participants here would be:
a) whether this is a sudden event of rebirth, or a protracted process (like conception, gestation and birth); and
b) whether this event must occur before the sinner can repent and believe the gospel.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
We seem to think regeneration is something mysterious, but is there a simple answer? Could it be the same thing as being indwelt by the Spirit?
Consider Romans 8:5-11, NKJV
5. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Here we see the following:
V. 6; to be carnally minded is death, spiritually minded is life and peace.
V.8, those in the flesh can not please God. Spiritually they are "dead".
V. 9; if the Holy Spirit dwells within you, you are not in the flesh (dead) but in the Spirit (Spiritually alive). If you do not have the Spirit, you are not a Christian. Our "life" is in Christ, Galatians 2:20:
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me".
V. 10; if Christ (the Spirit) is in us, we are alive (born again).
V. 11; the Spirit dwelling within gives this life.
Is there any scriptural proof that this passage in Romans is not a description of regeneration (other texts that would contradict this understanding)? Is regeneration only an event or is it an event that continues as an ongoing state?
If regeneration occurs normatively at conversion, or baptism, then we have an idea when it occurs. Otherwise the occasion is entirely speculative and can not be known. The Calvinist can only assert that it occured at some point prior to faith.
Consider Romans 8:5-11, NKJV
5. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Here we see the following:
V. 6; to be carnally minded is death, spiritually minded is life and peace.
V.8, those in the flesh can not please God. Spiritually they are "dead".
V. 9; if the Holy Spirit dwells within you, you are not in the flesh (dead) but in the Spirit (Spiritually alive). If you do not have the Spirit, you are not a Christian. Our "life" is in Christ, Galatians 2:20:
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me".
V. 10; if Christ (the Spirit) is in us, we are alive (born again).
V. 11; the Spirit dwelling within gives this life.
Is there any scriptural proof that this passage in Romans is not a description of regeneration (other texts that would contradict this understanding)? Is regeneration only an event or is it an event that continues as an ongoing state?
If regeneration occurs normatively at conversion, or baptism, then we have an idea when it occurs. Otherwise the occasion is entirely speculative and can not be known. The Calvinist can only assert that it occured at some point prior to faith.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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A Berean
Perry wrote:
"I thought the main point of contention here was whether the sinner had any say-so in it at all. Am I misreading the Calvinist position?"
You are not mistaken. It is essentially included in my point #2 (above).
"I thought the main point of contention here was whether the sinner had any say-so in it at all. Am I misreading the Calvinist position?"
You are not mistaken. It is essentially included in my point #2 (above).
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
Thanks for your responses.
Consider that regeneration may not refer to being made alive, but regeneration refers to being made new (being washed, raised with Christ to new life, etc.). Being made alive is just one of several metaphors that may be used.
Consider that regeneration is not a one time event, but a continous process (expressed in sanctification). Our cleansing (being made new, thus regeneration) is a continuing experience.
Consider that regeneration is thought of as a one-time event, not because the Biblical data demands that conclusion, but because the arbitrary model adopted as a presupposition requires a one-time "regeneration" to counter-act total depravity.
Am I way off on this?
Consider that regeneration may not refer to being made alive, but regeneration refers to being made new (being washed, raised with Christ to new life, etc.). Being made alive is just one of several metaphors that may be used.
Consider that regeneration is not a one time event, but a continous process (expressed in sanctification). Our cleansing (being made new, thus regeneration) is a continuing experience.
Consider that regeneration is thought of as a one-time event, not because the Biblical data demands that conclusion, but because the arbitrary model adopted as a presupposition requires a one-time "regeneration" to counter-act total depravity.
Am I way off on this?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Hello Sam,
(I do not like green eggs and).....off-topic, sorry......
Actually, and in getting to the topic; I've asked the same questions.
It seems possible that "born again" as used by Jesus in John 3 may pertain to the coming of the New Covenant, as was promised in the Prophets. I've been too busy to study this out (being intent on understanding Calvinism and N.T. Wright lately)....
If this was what Jesus was "saying" to Nicodemus, it would be a different take on it, eh? In other words, Jesus may have been saying, "You must be born again (or from above or both)" to Nicodemus to point toward the necessity of entering into the New Covenant when it comes. "And it shall be in the last days, God says, that I will pour forth my Spirit on all mankind" [Acts 2:17; Joel 2:28]. In these texts the Spirit is seen as being poured out, like in a drink offering, and could be a metaphor of the New Covenant. So being "born of water and [even] the Spirit" (John 3:5)...may refer to Jesus insisting on the necessity of entering into the New Covenant when God pours out His Spirit. The Holy Spirit, if this was what Jesus had in mind, could be a metaphorical "spiritual water."
If this could be what Jesus meant in his discussion with Nicodemus, being "born again" wouldn't refer to a spiritual birth (as opposed to a physical one, as Nicodemus was confused about). It would refer to a kind of New Covenant Birth: When God would pour out his "Holy Spirit water" in a metaphorical (and of course, also, a true) sense of meaning.
I don't know...(need more time to study this out!)....
This might help get my "gist" across, lol....
"And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting" (Acts 2:2, cf Acts 2:17, above)....
Ok, I need sleep really bad.....sorry if I'm rambling, Thanks & God bless, Rick
(I do not like green eggs and).....off-topic, sorry......
Actually, and in getting to the topic; I've asked the same questions.
It seems possible that "born again" as used by Jesus in John 3 may pertain to the coming of the New Covenant, as was promised in the Prophets. I've been too busy to study this out (being intent on understanding Calvinism and N.T. Wright lately)....
If this was what Jesus was "saying" to Nicodemus, it would be a different take on it, eh? In other words, Jesus may have been saying, "You must be born again (or from above or both)" to Nicodemus to point toward the necessity of entering into the New Covenant when it comes. "And it shall be in the last days, God says, that I will pour forth my Spirit on all mankind" [Acts 2:17; Joel 2:28]. In these texts the Spirit is seen as being poured out, like in a drink offering, and could be a metaphor of the New Covenant. So being "born of water and [even] the Spirit" (John 3:5)...may refer to Jesus insisting on the necessity of entering into the New Covenant when God pours out His Spirit. The Holy Spirit, if this was what Jesus had in mind, could be a metaphorical "spiritual water."
If this could be what Jesus meant in his discussion with Nicodemus, being "born again" wouldn't refer to a spiritual birth (as opposed to a physical one, as Nicodemus was confused about). It would refer to a kind of New Covenant Birth: When God would pour out his "Holy Spirit water" in a metaphorical (and of course, also, a true) sense of meaning.
I don't know...(need more time to study this out!)....
This might help get my "gist" across, lol....
Keeping in mind:NET Bible notes on John 3:5 wrote:Translation Note: Or “born of water and wind” (the same Greek word, πνεύματος [pneumatos], may be translated either “spirit/Spirit” or “wind”).
Jesus’ somewhat enigmatic statement points to the necessity of being born “from above,” because water and wind/spirit/Spirit come from above. Isaiah 44:3-5 and Ezek 37:9-10 are pertinent examples of water and wind as life-giving symbols of the Spirit of God in his work among people. Both occur in contexts that deal with the future restoration of Israel as a nation prior to the establishment of the messianic kingdom. It is therefore particularly appropriate that Jesus should introduce them in a conversation about entering the kingdom of God. Note that the Greek word πνεύματος is anarthrous (has no article) in v. 5. This does not mean that spirit in the verse should be read as a direct reference to the Holy Spirit, but that both water and wind are figures (based on passages in the OT, which Nicodemus, the teacher of Israel should have known) that represent the regenerating work of the Spirit in the lives of men and women.
"And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting" (Acts 2:2, cf Acts 2:17, above)....
Ok, I need sleep really bad.....sorry if I'm rambling, Thanks & God bless, Rick
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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“In Jesus Christ God ordained life for man, but death for himself” -- Karl Barth