What do people have to understand about God?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:43 pm

Do you guys not think the one and only-ness of God is the most essential, fundamental, foundational truth about God which the scriptures seek to communicate and which men are expected to understand?

I think for the most part the NT writers already assumed their readers believed in one God therefore their aim was to communicate about Jesus.
Interestingly when Jesus was asked about which is the most important commandment, he did'nt say "God is One" but rather "Love the Lord" and then "Love your neighbor."
So i think Jesus answered your question.

Post by **_Paidion** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:44 pm

Paidion wrote:
1. Did Jesus exist in any sense prior to his birth?
2. When did Jesus become "the son of God"?
1. Only in the foreknowledge of God (1 Pet 1:20).
2. At his conception. (Luke 1:35, cf. 2 Sam 7:14)

I guessed that this was your position, Ely. I used to post on a Christadelphian site and most people their held these views.

I wondered how you would explain this exchange between Jesus and the Jewish leaders:

Jesus said:

Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad."

Jesus seemed to be saying that Abraham saw Jesus and experienced Him. This is in fact born out in the OT story in which one of three angels who were sent to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, stayed behind and conversed with Abraham. That angel was addressed by Abraham as "Yahweh".

If this statement appeared in isolation, I suppose one could conjecture that his statement meant that Abraham rejoiced to see in his mind, prophetically, the day that Christ appear. However, the response of the Jews clearly indicates that they understood Jesus as saying that He had been with Abraham.

The Jews then said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham John 8:56?"

Now if Jesus had meant that Abraham had seen Jesus prophetically, this would have been the time to explain this to the Jews. Instead, He answered their question directly:

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58

There is no doubt that Jesus was stating that He existed before Abraham, and that the Jews knew He was making that claim. For they took up stones with which to stone Him.

Post by **_Ely** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:22 pm

STEVE7150 wrote:Do you guys not think the one and only-ness of God is the most essential, fundamental, foundational truth about God which the scriptures seek to communicate and which men are expected to understand?

I think for the most part the NT writers already assumed their readers believed in one God therefore their aim was to communicate about Jesus.
Interestingly when Jesus was asked about which is the most important commandment, he did'nt say "God is One" but rather "Love the Lord" and then "Love your neighbor."
So i think Jesus answered your question.

Indeed, he did! Please note the fullest account of that dialogue in Mark 12:28-30:

"Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”
Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment."

Paidion, I've started a new thread on the pre-existence issue so as to allow this thread to stay focussed.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:10 pm

Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment."

You're right and good point. But (there usually is a but) we have a different understanding of "one."
We could go on and on but statements like Jesus is the exact image of God and the fullness of the God head dwells in him etc , simply leave no room for him being less then "diety" IMO.

Post by **_Ely** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:55 pm

So, does no-one think that the scriptures expect people to understand the oneness of God?

Post by **_Paidion** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:04 pm

Yes, someone thinks so. You do.

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:54 am

Ely wrote:So, does no-one think that the scriptures expect people to understand the oneness of God?

Yes, I think that it is a fundamental fact that there is only one true God. But whether someone must understand that to be saved is not certain. I don't believe that having this understanding would be a litmus test. Salvation, IMO, has more to do with the heart than it does with which facts we know.

Todd

Post by **_JC** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:47 am

Paul said that if someone possesses all knowledge and comprehends all mysteries, yet is without love... he has nothing (1 cor. 13). Love, as evidenced by this passage, seems to be a requirement for knowing God.