What do people have to understand about God?

[Guest]

I would think a person would have to believe in God as He is revealed in scripture. Not any old god will do.

And there's the rub, for who among us has a perfect view of God as revealed in scripture? I beleive we all have misconceptions about God to a greater or lesser degree. To the extent that we are in error we believe in a false god.

The question seems to be, "How wrong can we be, and still be saved?"

Perry

[Guest]

From my understanding of scripture as well as knowing God personally, He doesn't seem very concerned about formulas. He gravitates toward those who are humble and lowly and reveals himself to such people, though I think it's a stage-by-stage revelation. Those who are in fellowship with God will physically die at different stages of their development. Peter, Stephen and James probably all died with varying degrees of knowledge. This is why formulas don't work but a consideration of the state of one's heart is all important. So long as one is humbly seeking God, they will find him and have rest for their souls. Those who continue in this fellowship will learn more and more as time goes on.

That's how I see it anyway.

[Guest]

From my understanding of scripture as well as knowing God personally, He doesn't seem very concerned about formulas. He gravitates toward those who are humble and lowly and reveals himself to such people, though I think it's a stage-by-stage revelation. Those who are in fellowship with God will physically die at different stages of their development. Peter, Stephen and James probably all died with varying degrees of knowledge. This is why formulas don't work but a consideration of the state of one's heart is all important. So long as one is humbly seeking God, they will find him and have rest for their souls. Those who continue in this fellowship will learn more and more as time goes on.

That's how I see it anyway.

JC,

I like what you have said here. Would this apply to Muslims and Hindus?

Todd

[Guest]

From my understanding of scripture as well as knowing God personally, He doesn't seem very concerned about formulas. He gravitates toward those who are humble and lowly and reveals himself to such people, though I think it's a stage-by-stage revelation. Those who are in fellowship with God will physically die at different stages of their development. Peter, Stephen and James probably all died with varying degrees of knowledge. This is why formulas don't work but a consideration of the state of one's heart is all important. So long as one is humbly seeking God, they will find him and have rest for their souls. Those who continue in this fellowship will learn more and more as time goes on.

That's how I see it anyway.

JC,

I like what you have said here. Would this apply to Muslims and Hindus?

Todd

JC can answer for himself, but I thought I would offer my thoughts because I considered the same thing when I read his comments.

I believe that if a person is a true seeker of God, then God would reveal Himself to that person in a way that they would not find their religion compatible with the true God. They may not come to a full understanding of who Christ is, but they would certainly not be able to continue to be a Muslim or Hindu.
Robin

[Guest]

I believe that if a person is a true seeker of God, then God would reveal Himself to that person in a way that they would not find their religion compatible with the true God. They may not come to a full understanding of who Christ is, but they would certainly not be able to continue to be a Muslim or Hindu.
Robin

I agree that God will reveal himself to true seekers but there seems to be no evidence that this happens on a large scale in this life.
Occasionally we hear of a muslim having a dream about Christ but these reports are few and far between.

[Guest]

Guys,

I'm not asking "what about people who haven't heard of Jesus."

I'm asking about those people who have had access to special revelation, especially the the scriptures. In the scriptures, we have, among other things, the words of God Himself and the proclamations of His messengers. These words communicate the truth about God.

So, what if any objective truth(s) about God are men expected to understand as result of hearing these words?

[Guest]

Hi Ely,

So, what if any objective truth(s) about God are men expected to understand as result of hearing these words?

It sounds almost as though what you're after is a kind of "statement of beliefs". I seriously doubt you'll get a consensus of opinion.

I think your question is a very good one, and I'm eager to hear opinions and see them debated.

Here are a couple of scriptures that come immediatly to mind.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

and as already mentioned...

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

also..

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Most of us believe that we believe on Jesus, and yet still have disagreements about particular elements of doctrin. My own thinking is that, if we are sincere in our attempts to follow Jesus, He will lead us along a path that will, eventually, lead us all to a unified faith. That unity may not come fully until after Christ returns. But once He does, if we're as submissive as we should be, then we will let go of our pet doctrins that turn out to be false.

This is what many of the Pharisees would not do. When the light came, they loved the darkness more.

So it seems to me that the important principles are, believing on Christ, and being ever submissive to His teachings. If we do then...

Joh 16:13 ...when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I'm not sure if that's what you're after or not, but it's kind of my stab at it.

Perry

[Guest]

And there's the rub, for who among us has a perfect view of God as revealed in scripture? I beleive we all have misconceptions about God to a greater or lesser degree. To the extent that we are in error we believe in a false god.

The question seems to be, "How wrong can we be, and still be saved?"

It's not a matter of misunderstanding the character of God. The requirement in Hebrews is to believe that God exists. This is a necessary requirement, but not sufficient, of course.

To believe that God exists is to beleive that the God, who in fact exists, exists.

Some think that if X believes that God has a different set of characteristics from those in which Y believes, then X believes in a different God than the one in which Y believes. I do not think this is the case.

I know, for example, that I believe that God does not have the same characteristics that Calvinists believe Him to possess, or that Muslims beleive Him to have. Yet, I don't believe in a different God that the one in which Calvinists believe, or the one in which Muslims believe. I think that Calvinists, Muslims, and myself all believe in the same God. It's just that I ascribe certain attributes to God, Calvinists ascribe quite different attributes, and Muslims ascribe still other attributes (although some of them are held in common with Calvinists).

The requirement in the book of Hebrews, that one must believe in the existence of God in order to come to Him, does not require a correct belief concerning His attributes. However, it may be necessary to hold a common believe in some of His attributes. For some who profess belief in God define God as "the principle of goodness" or some such concept. I think the definition of "God" must include personality. I believe that God must also be recognized as "the Creator of the universe."

[Guest]

So, what if any objective truth(s) about God are men expected to understand as result of hearing these words?


As far as i see the following
That God's character is revealed through Christ
That Jesus is the Christ, that he is our Lord and that he is the unique Son of God and that he died to save us from our sins.
And that he rose from the dead, so that one day we will too.

And "saving us from our sins" i realize can be understood as forgiveness or deliverance or both.

[Guest]

i was going to say something similar, Steve.

I think a person must be a disciple of Jesus Christ, which means obeying what he taught. about a split second before you commit to this, you have to believe that Jesus is who the Bible says He was.

TK