What actual powers does Satan have?
Continuing with this question of what powers Satan has, I am reminded of individuals who have come out of the drug culture and into Christianity who say that they are constantly being bombarded by the darkside. Some seeing demons, others hearing voices and the like. Likewise there are the more charismatic brethren who relate these same type of experiences. On the otherhand there are christians (also true to the faith in Christ) who never experience anything of the sort. We just live quite lives and go about kingdom work in the way God has gifted each. Why is there this vast polar difference? Why do some have such intense experiences while others never do? Is it because the Holy Spirit is more prevelent in the lives of some more than others or is it for other reasons?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Rick,
This morning's tape was 02-1a, and it covered exactly this topic. Here are my notes on the tape. They end abruptly, but that's because so does 02-1a. (It'll pick up at 02-1b).
Note: Occasionally these notes express opinions of my own, or examples of my own that don't exist on the original tape. Also, I don't want to make any claim about Steve's opinions, or anything like that. This is nothing more than what it is, my notes while listening to Steve's lecture.
I've considered creating a blog of my notes while listening to these lectures. Do you guys think it would be worthwhile?
-----------------
2007/06/01 2-1a
Matt 4:1-11, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-13
Luke and Matt differ on the order temptations, reversing the order of the last two.
This is the first thing to happen to Jesus after His baptism.
v1 Indicates that Christ was led by the Spirit, immediately after having received Him at baptism.
Luk 4:1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness
Mar 1:12 And straightway the Spirit driveth him forth into the wilderness.
Normally we think of the HS leading us gently, and not of being driven by Him. This seems almost like a violent aggressive action on the HS's part. Mark emphasizes immediacy and fast motion. Everything is always immediately after the last thing before. The imagery in Mark is like the Spirit being behind and driving Him, as though with a whip. But Matt and Luke's account says that Christ was led which evokes an image of a shepherd leading his sheep.
1) This is the only story in the gospels for which the only possible source of information was Jesus Himself. In other words, there were no witnesses to this event. Christ's greatest temptation came to Him in private. Jesus must have told the disciples about this story. (It is conceivable that Matt, Mark, and Luke all got this information via inspiration of the HS. Luke didn't claim inspiration, which seems to indicate that, in Luke's mind, this was information he had access to through some more mundane means.)
2) Was this a visible confrontation with the Devil, or was it more like the kinds of temptations that we go through? Not many of us are tempted by seeing Satan face to face.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
One of the things that make temptation difficult for us is that we don't see the Devil. He is very subtle. Imagine the thing that you find most tempting is, for example, ice cream. Now imagine say you're alone in your room, and Satan appears before you, "poof!", with a bowl of Rocky Road in his hands and he tries to tempt you with it. Would that be more or less tempting than the simple realization that it's already available in the refrigerator? The problem with temptation is that it creeps up on you unawares. One of Satan's chief advantages is his sublty.
The story would be told in much the same way in any case. Probably suggestions simply snuck subtly into His mind much the same as happens with us.
There's here a question of Satan transporting Jesus from place to place. It is possible. There are two supernatural beings here. It is also possible that Satan gave Jesus visions. Otherwise we have to assume that Jesus allowed Satan to lead Him around, and that's tough to swallow, or, even scarier, that Satan forcibly moved Jesus around, which implies some kind of physical power. (It's also possible to think of the HS as having led Christ to these various places to be tempted, but that's somewhat contrary to what the scriptures say.)
The issue here is the presence of an actual conceivable temptation. You can't literally see "all the kingdoms of the world" just because you're on the top of a high mountain, especially not in Jerusalem, so there's obviously something of a miraculous nature going on here. Moreover, Luke's account adds the detail that this all took place in a moment of time:
Luk 4:5 And he led him up, and shewed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
This added detail seems to indicate that this is more of a vision or perhaps a realization. We use an expressions like, "It came to me in a flash!". "In a moment" Jesus saw the kingdoms of the world as within His grasp. So this was probably more of a mental experience than something Jesus saw with his actual physical eyes.
This also may have been the case at the Temple. There's no way to be absolutely sure. For it to be physical, you have to picture Jesus going out of the desert back to the Temple and somehow sitting at the top of the Temple.
Mark's wording suggests this that Jesus never left the wilderness.
Mar 1:13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
For most of us, it's more difficult to resist when Satan subtly whispers his vile suggestions in our ears, but he does it so subtly that it actually seems like our idea.
3) Some hold to the doctrine of the impeccability of Christ. The idea goes like this. Christ was God, and according to James, God can't sin. Therefore it was utterly impossible for Christ to sin. All Christians believe that Christ did not sin, but there are differences of opinion about whether or not He could have sinned. Well, for the temptation to be a real temptation it must have been in some way possible. But not only does James say God can’t sin, James says that God can’t be tempted.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:
Jesus was clearly tempted, even though it says here that God can't be tempted. So what we have to say is that, it some sense, Jesus was capable of being attracted to evil in when He was in human form. If it was impossible for Jesus to sin, then He really had no choice in whether not to sin or not. Moreover, there's no real victory unless the outcome is uncertain.
What makes temptation tempting is that we are capable of doing it. We’re not tempted to turn stones to bread, even when we’re desperately hungry. Christ could have turned the stones to bread, and therefore the temptation had substance to it. Jesus was hungry, the scripture says, and therefore He must have been tempted by the hunger.
4). Another theme here is Jesus as the Son of God. The Voice from heaven had just affirmed this at Jesus’ baptism. The very first thing Satan does is cast doubt upon this. "If you are the Son of God". All that Jesus had at this point was God's word on this (though, I’d say delivered in a rather impressive manner). It came to Jesus' mind, either through Satan's physically standing there in front of Him and suggesting it, or by simply suggesting it to His mind. The first temptation, then, really isn't to satiate His hunger, but rather, to prove that He was the Son of God.
(Mark's wording suggests that these temptations lasted for the entire 40 days.)
Mar 1:13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
In Matt and Luke it appears that it happened at the end of the 40 days. (Only Mark mentions the wild beasts.)
Some symbology: Jesus passed through the water, and then was led into the desert, and tempted 40 days.
1Co 10:1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, how that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 and did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 Howbeit with most of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
The children of Israel were tempted in the wilderness for 4o years, right after having been “baptized” in the Red Sea. Paul is not likening this to Jesus, here, but, rather, to us.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples,
But Jesus' own experience is our example. There was no real reason for Jesus to be baptized except as an example to us. What happened to Israel as they came out of Egypt is a picture of Jesus.
Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
This is quoted about the Exodus, and yet, Matt quotes this and applies it to Christ when He was still just a child and came out of Egypt.
There are some interesting parallels going on here.
The day for a year parallel was established after the original Exodus. There's no denying the resemblance between Jesus' forty days in the wilderness and Israel’s forty years in the wilderness. Jesus quoted scripture to the Devil three times in this story, and all three quotes come from Deuteronomy, a book that was written from sermons that Moses gave to Israel during the time they wandered in the wilderness.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Ghost saith, Today if ye shall hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the temptation in the wilderness,
Heb 3:9 Wherewith your fathers tempted me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do alway err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
Heb 3:11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
This is saying that while the Israelites were being tempted, they were also trying (tempting) God's patience too.
Psa 95:7 For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. Today, Oh that ye would hear his voice!
Psa 95:8 Harden not your heart, as at Meribah, as in the day of Massah in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with that generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Wherefore I sware in my wrath, that they should not enter into my rest.
Jesus was the last Adam. Adam and Eve were tempted and fell and brought condemnation on the world. Jesus was the second Adam and was tempted, yet overcame, and brought redemption to the world. So Jesus' temptation is similar in some ways to Adams. (One difference is that Jesus was tempted to eat when He was starving, while Adam's temptation came in a place where he was glutted with food.) Here we see a replay between Adam and the serpent, and, once again, the fate of the world is on the line.
So Jesus is playing multiple roles. He's like the second Adam going through something like the first Adam went through. He's like the founder of a new Israel going through something like the original Israel went through.
And He's God too. And God was tempted by Israel's shenanigans in the wilderness too. He's in the wilderness, and Mark points out that He was with the wild beasts, but as far as we know they did him no harm, but then Satan tempts Him. Who was it that tempted God for forty years, but Israel?
1Th 2:18 because we would fain have come unto you, I Paul once and again; and Satan hindered us.
Th 3:5 For this cause I also, when I could no longer forbear, sent that I might know your faith, lest by any means the tempter had tempted you, and our labour should be in vain.
Through what means did Satan hinder Paul?
This morning's tape was 02-1a, and it covered exactly this topic. Here are my notes on the tape. They end abruptly, but that's because so does 02-1a. (It'll pick up at 02-1b).
Note: Occasionally these notes express opinions of my own, or examples of my own that don't exist on the original tape. Also, I don't want to make any claim about Steve's opinions, or anything like that. This is nothing more than what it is, my notes while listening to Steve's lecture.
I've considered creating a blog of my notes while listening to these lectures. Do you guys think it would be worthwhile?
-----------------
2007/06/01 2-1a
Matt 4:1-11, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-13
Luke and Matt differ on the order temptations, reversing the order of the last two.
This is the first thing to happen to Jesus after His baptism.
v1 Indicates that Christ was led by the Spirit, immediately after having received Him at baptism.
Luk 4:1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness
Mar 1:12 And straightway the Spirit driveth him forth into the wilderness.
Normally we think of the HS leading us gently, and not of being driven by Him. This seems almost like a violent aggressive action on the HS's part. Mark emphasizes immediacy and fast motion. Everything is always immediately after the last thing before. The imagery in Mark is like the Spirit being behind and driving Him, as though with a whip. But Matt and Luke's account says that Christ was led which evokes an image of a shepherd leading his sheep.
1) This is the only story in the gospels for which the only possible source of information was Jesus Himself. In other words, there were no witnesses to this event. Christ's greatest temptation came to Him in private. Jesus must have told the disciples about this story. (It is conceivable that Matt, Mark, and Luke all got this information via inspiration of the HS. Luke didn't claim inspiration, which seems to indicate that, in Luke's mind, this was information he had access to through some more mundane means.)
2) Was this a visible confrontation with the Devil, or was it more like the kinds of temptations that we go through? Not many of us are tempted by seeing Satan face to face.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
One of the things that make temptation difficult for us is that we don't see the Devil. He is very subtle. Imagine the thing that you find most tempting is, for example, ice cream. Now imagine say you're alone in your room, and Satan appears before you, "poof!", with a bowl of Rocky Road in his hands and he tries to tempt you with it. Would that be more or less tempting than the simple realization that it's already available in the refrigerator? The problem with temptation is that it creeps up on you unawares. One of Satan's chief advantages is his sublty.
The story would be told in much the same way in any case. Probably suggestions simply snuck subtly into His mind much the same as happens with us.
There's here a question of Satan transporting Jesus from place to place. It is possible. There are two supernatural beings here. It is also possible that Satan gave Jesus visions. Otherwise we have to assume that Jesus allowed Satan to lead Him around, and that's tough to swallow, or, even scarier, that Satan forcibly moved Jesus around, which implies some kind of physical power. (It's also possible to think of the HS as having led Christ to these various places to be tempted, but that's somewhat contrary to what the scriptures say.)
The issue here is the presence of an actual conceivable temptation. You can't literally see "all the kingdoms of the world" just because you're on the top of a high mountain, especially not in Jerusalem, so there's obviously something of a miraculous nature going on here. Moreover, Luke's account adds the detail that this all took place in a moment of time:
Luk 4:5 And he led him up, and shewed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
This added detail seems to indicate that this is more of a vision or perhaps a realization. We use an expressions like, "It came to me in a flash!". "In a moment" Jesus saw the kingdoms of the world as within His grasp. So this was probably more of a mental experience than something Jesus saw with his actual physical eyes.
This also may have been the case at the Temple. There's no way to be absolutely sure. For it to be physical, you have to picture Jesus going out of the desert back to the Temple and somehow sitting at the top of the Temple.
Mark's wording suggests this that Jesus never left the wilderness.
Mar 1:13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
For most of us, it's more difficult to resist when Satan subtly whispers his vile suggestions in our ears, but he does it so subtly that it actually seems like our idea.
3) Some hold to the doctrine of the impeccability of Christ. The idea goes like this. Christ was God, and according to James, God can't sin. Therefore it was utterly impossible for Christ to sin. All Christians believe that Christ did not sin, but there are differences of opinion about whether or not He could have sinned. Well, for the temptation to be a real temptation it must have been in some way possible. But not only does James say God can’t sin, James says that God can’t be tempted.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:
Jesus was clearly tempted, even though it says here that God can't be tempted. So what we have to say is that, it some sense, Jesus was capable of being attracted to evil in when He was in human form. If it was impossible for Jesus to sin, then He really had no choice in whether not to sin or not. Moreover, there's no real victory unless the outcome is uncertain.
What makes temptation tempting is that we are capable of doing it. We’re not tempted to turn stones to bread, even when we’re desperately hungry. Christ could have turned the stones to bread, and therefore the temptation had substance to it. Jesus was hungry, the scripture says, and therefore He must have been tempted by the hunger.
4). Another theme here is Jesus as the Son of God. The Voice from heaven had just affirmed this at Jesus’ baptism. The very first thing Satan does is cast doubt upon this. "If you are the Son of God". All that Jesus had at this point was God's word on this (though, I’d say delivered in a rather impressive manner). It came to Jesus' mind, either through Satan's physically standing there in front of Him and suggesting it, or by simply suggesting it to His mind. The first temptation, then, really isn't to satiate His hunger, but rather, to prove that He was the Son of God.
(Mark's wording suggests that these temptations lasted for the entire 40 days.)
Mar 1:13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
In Matt and Luke it appears that it happened at the end of the 40 days. (Only Mark mentions the wild beasts.)
Some symbology: Jesus passed through the water, and then was led into the desert, and tempted 40 days.
1Co 10:1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, how that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 and did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 Howbeit with most of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
The children of Israel were tempted in the wilderness for 4o years, right after having been “baptized” in the Red Sea. Paul is not likening this to Jesus, here, but, rather, to us.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples,
But Jesus' own experience is our example. There was no real reason for Jesus to be baptized except as an example to us. What happened to Israel as they came out of Egypt is a picture of Jesus.
Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
This is quoted about the Exodus, and yet, Matt quotes this and applies it to Christ when He was still just a child and came out of Egypt.
There are some interesting parallels going on here.
The day for a year parallel was established after the original Exodus. There's no denying the resemblance between Jesus' forty days in the wilderness and Israel’s forty years in the wilderness. Jesus quoted scripture to the Devil three times in this story, and all three quotes come from Deuteronomy, a book that was written from sermons that Moses gave to Israel during the time they wandered in the wilderness.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Ghost saith, Today if ye shall hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the temptation in the wilderness,
Heb 3:9 Wherewith your fathers tempted me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do alway err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
Heb 3:11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
This is saying that while the Israelites were being tempted, they were also trying (tempting) God's patience too.
Psa 95:7 For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. Today, Oh that ye would hear his voice!
Psa 95:8 Harden not your heart, as at Meribah, as in the day of Massah in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with that generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Wherefore I sware in my wrath, that they should not enter into my rest.
Jesus was the last Adam. Adam and Eve were tempted and fell and brought condemnation on the world. Jesus was the second Adam and was tempted, yet overcame, and brought redemption to the world. So Jesus' temptation is similar in some ways to Adams. (One difference is that Jesus was tempted to eat when He was starving, while Adam's temptation came in a place where he was glutted with food.) Here we see a replay between Adam and the serpent, and, once again, the fate of the world is on the line.
So Jesus is playing multiple roles. He's like the second Adam going through something like the first Adam went through. He's like the founder of a new Israel going through something like the original Israel went through.
And He's God too. And God was tempted by Israel's shenanigans in the wilderness too. He's in the wilderness, and Mark points out that He was with the wild beasts, but as far as we know they did him no harm, but then Satan tempts Him. Who was it that tempted God for forty years, but Israel?
1Th 2:18 because we would fain have come unto you, I Paul once and again; and Satan hindered us.
Th 3:5 For this cause I also, when I could no longer forbear, sent that I might know your faith, lest by any means the tempter had tempted you, and our labour should be in vain.
Through what means did Satan hinder Paul?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Perry wrote:
YES YES a 1000 times YES!
i listen while i am driving in the car, so taking notes is not a wise option. i am actually finishing up the life of christ series- i am up to the passion week.
I must say that this series has been absolutely excellent, and I am sort of sad that it is coming to an end--- which is why i am psyched if Perry will blog his notes.
On a side note, I think it would be awesome if a godly court reporter would be willing to transcribe steve's lectures to writing. of course the sheer magnitude of such a task may be insurmountable.
TK
I've considered creating a blog of my notes while listening to these lectures. Do you guys think it would be worthwhile?
YES YES a 1000 times YES!
i listen while i am driving in the car, so taking notes is not a wise option. i am actually finishing up the life of christ series- i am up to the passion week.
I must say that this series has been absolutely excellent, and I am sort of sad that it is coming to an end--- which is why i am psyched if Perry will blog his notes.
On a side note, I think it would be awesome if a godly court reporter would be willing to transcribe steve's lectures to writing. of course the sheer magnitude of such a task may be insurmountable.
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
TK, I have actually transcribed some of Steves lectures. I am not a court recorder so I am slow, but I have done it. There is a service out there that will do it for a very reasonable price but I think it would have to be in the form of a ministry with donations to offset the cost.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Perry,
Good work, bro! (Wow! Steve too, obviously!)...so much in there! But if you get a blog will you still be 'round these here parts? I've thought about getting one for years but I speculate to the extent that, well, I'm afraid I might embarrass myself!
Re: Transcriptions of Steve's material
I've actually listened & typed out excerpts of some of Steve's stuff then posted them here. Steve later edited them by correcting grammatical errors, etc. You know, how when you speak to people you may not always use the igzack krekt Ingleesh...so you might have that too.
I'm gonna listen to the LOC lecture some time this weekend.
Good work, bro! (Wow! Steve too, obviously!)...so much in there! But if you get a blog will you still be 'round these here parts? I've thought about getting one for years but I speculate to the extent that, well, I'm afraid I might embarrass myself!
Re: Transcriptions of Steve's material
I've actually listened & typed out excerpts of some of Steve's stuff then posted them here. Steve later edited them by correcting grammatical errors, etc. You know, how when you speak to people you may not always use the igzack krekt Ingleesh...so you might have that too.
I'm gonna listen to the LOC lecture some time this weekend.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
http://LOCNotes.blogspot.comTK wrote: YES YES a 1000 times YES!
Be sure to read the disclaimer down at the bottom. Also, creating this blog isn't quite the cut-and-paste operation I thought it would be, so I'll be adding the new lectures as I get time. I listen to half a tape each morning, taking detailed notes. This morning's lecture was 2-2a. (I skip Sundays). So I have a bit of a backlog before getting caught up.
Finally, I suppose I should have done this before, I need to check with Steve to make sure he doesn't mind.
Steve, if you want me to pull these off, please let me know, and I'll gank that blog lickety split.
Of course. This is just a place to share these notes.Rick_C wrote:But if you get a blog will you still be 'round these here parts?
Perry
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
perry wrote:
def.: Gank- to get rid of something really, really fast
TK
cool word-- if it's not a real word it should be.gank
def.: Gank- to get rid of something really, really fast
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
Thanks Steve. Those lectures are gonna keep me busy for a while.
Perry
As I go back over my earlier notes to make 'em blogable, I'm getting a great refresher.TK wrote:it is a very worthwhile undertaking.
Perry
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason: