Level of sin for believers

[Guest]

Hello men.

I find all your comments more than interesting. But I find myself asking myself more than once. Does it really matter that we get this exactly right? Is it possible at all to really know the full mind /being of God?

It seems to me every one of you have valid points but all of them don't line up completely. So when it boils down to which sin is greater or which one may have more punishments, I believe we wont "really" know until we meet our maker face to face.

I am not saying because of this we should use the Lords salvation as some call "fire insurance" but I think it will all wash out in the end and be just. I use to be alot more caught up in judgment on myself and others (not saying any of you are) to the point I'd call myself legalistic( pharisee behavior?).

But I have learned to also include much deeper, Gods truth of loving your neighbor and putting your love of God number one in your life alot more in the drivers seat when it comes to sin judgments.

I may be to soft in some areas or to harsh in Gods judgment or others. I don't know, but I figure and find peace and deep love,in thats what Christ died for....to cover me where I fall short! I think I am a better , less stressful and compassionate person for it and it's nicer for those around me too!( no, I wasn't a screaming hormonal maniac before...haha) Hopefully I come off just through that as a better rep.for Christ!

Well, thats my addition here anyways, from a female point of view also.

[Guest]

I find all your comments more than interesting. But I find myself asking myself more than once. Does it really matter that we get this exactly right? Is it possible at all to really know the full mind /being of God?


Hi Glow, I think if you are satisfied by your approach then you're approach is right for you, but i find this discussion very stimulating and we may or may not get it exactly right but i like the journey.

[Guest]

I AGREE! I hope I didn't give you the wrong idea. I believe our journeys never done here until we cross over, and hopefully we will keep learning new things and discoveries until we are "home" and than we get to start the " new one" .....Adventure can be scary at times but it's also GREAT!

[Guest]

As for "Christian Universalists", most, without contradiction, believe all three. But they don't understand the biblical "Hell" to be a place or condition of eternal torment, but rather a place or condition of remediation, where correction may require many ages.



Right , Jesus said for some it would be better if a millstone where tied around their neck and they were tossed into the sea. Most likely the vast majority will end up in hell , the question is , what next? What does God really want to see for mankind? Is God's aim for Him to be "all in all?"

[Guest]

Hi Paidion,

I apologize for not responding sooner. I lost track of this discussion and didn’t realize I had neglected to respond. Sadly, the amount of time I have to read and post on The Narrow Path has been greatly reduced in the last few months, which is a shame because I truly enjoy the respectful and thoughtful dialog that takes place here.

Regarding “Talbott’s Triad”, which I posted in a severely simplified form, you can read it in Talbott’s own words here: http://www.willamette.edu/~ttalbott/prolegomenon.shtml

I wanted to respond to this statement:

What are you saying about the position of Quakers and Anabaptists? All the Anabaptist groups I know, believe that most people will go to Hell.

That’s strange that you would say that. Most of the Quaker and Anabaptist groups I know, or know of, tend to believe that most people will not go to Hell (in the Eternal Torment sense of the word). You are much more likely to find Christian Universalists among the Quakers and Anabaptists than other Christian groups. A tendency towards Universal Reconciliation is a prominent characteristic of much (but not all) Quaker and Anabaptist theology.

For example, the Quaker apologist Robert Barclay (1648-1690) wrote, "This most certain doctrine being then received, that there is an evangelical and saving Light and grace in all, the universality of the love and mercy of God towards mankind, both in the death of his beloved Son the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the manifestation of the Light in the heart, is established and confirmed, against all the objections of such as deny it."

Likewise, Universalism in Anabaptism goes back to the earliest days of the movement, as evidenced by the writings of Hans Denck. (1495-1527) and his disciple Hans Hut (1490–1527).

As for "Christian Universalists", most, without contradiction, believe all three. But they don't understand the biblical "Hell" to be a place or condition of eternal torment, but rather a place or condition of remediation, where correction may require many ages.

Here you’re just arguing semantics. Obviously, in the example given, the word “Hell” is used in the “traditional” sense of the word: a place of eternal torment. Most Christians assume “Hell” and “eternal torment” to be one and the same. In the three propositions, therefore, “Hell” was used as shorthand for “eternal torment”

Hi Glow,

I very much appreciate what you’ve said, and I agree. My “default position”, so to speak, is the love of Christ. Mercy, grace, compassion, restoration. These are the things I try to focus on in my life and ministry. I work with inmates and they soak up God’s love, mercy, compassion, grace and restoration like dry sponges. They’re so used to legalism, condemnation, threats of wrath and Hellfire. It hardens them and robs their hope and sense of value. Conversely, the revelation of the love of God in Christ gives them hope, purpose and healing.

Although, on one hand, what we believe about Hell is a doctrinal matter, on the other hand, the doctrines we hold affect our worldview and can have huge ramifications upon the world at large. For example, a direct link can be traced from the Calvinist doctrine of predestination to the application of Manifest Destiny while resulted in death and suffering for untold millions in the New World.

In Chapter Three of The Inescapable Love of God, Thomas Talbott discusses how the doctrine of Eternal Punishment resulted in a legacy of fear and persecution. You can read that chapter online here: http://www.geocities.com/tomtalb/chapter3.PDF

[Guest]

WOW! Look what lil' ol' me started!

[Guest]

Danny, thanks for posting Talbott’s article, which is quite powerful. My opinion on the fate of the lost is that I have no opinion on the fate of the lost. Though, having said that, truth does have a certain aroma to it, no?

[Guest]

Danny, thanks for posting Talbott’s article, which is quite powerful. My opinion on the fate of the lost is that I have no opinion on the fate of the lost. Though, having said that, truth does have a certain aroma to it, no?

If you liked that, you should try The Inescapable Love of God by Thomas Talbott.

I'm two thirds through it and have found it pretty convincing.

Dave

[Guest]

Hey Dave!

I recently finished "The Inescapable Love of God". As soon as I did I turned right back to the beginning and started reading it again. It's a great book.

Isn't it odd that a book this good and edifying hasn't been picked up by a major Christian publisher?

[Guest]

I recently finished "The Inescapable Love of God". As soon as I did I turned right back to the beginning and started reading it again. It's a great book.

Agreed! I kept thinking with every page turned that I'll need to read this again. I've borrowed my copy from the library, but I think that I may have to purchase this one to keep.

Isn't it odd that a book this good and edifying hasn't been picked up by a major Christian publisher?

Not so much considering the type of books they primarily publish: safe and squishy. This one is dangerous (in a good way) and makes you think. That won't ever sell.

Dave