Death Bed Conversion

Post by **_livingink** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:28 pm

Hello Homer,

She obviously received poor teaching. In Luke 20:34 NIV, Jesus replied, The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die......"

But regarding her teacher, Matthew 23:1-3 NIV, Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. ......."

Consider Luke 4:33-34 NIV, In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, "Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!" So even demons or the demon possessed know who Jesus is.

But what about 1 John 5:1-5 NIV? Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Did she?

livingink

Post by **_Homer** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:57 pm

Livingink asked:

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Did she?

I think she believed, but who can know the heart but God? Or is the question whether she "obeyed His commands"? She died shortly after.

I'm curious how many think death-bed confessions should be pursued?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:24 am

It sounds like her husband or her own comfort was the Lord of her life rather then Jesus since apparently should could only accept Jesus on a conditional basis.
Re self interest, ultimately i think even when we do the right thing which is loving and following Christ , it's for our self interest.
But our self interest does'nt have to be a negative thing if we use it to serve others.
Even Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth by completing his mission , so he gained something, but in gaining something he shared it with his followers.

Post by **_TK** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:24 am

homer wrote:

I'm curious how many think death-bed confessions should be pursued?

what is the alternative? not to try? i am quite positive that there are many many people in heaven who were saved on their death bed. many people are saved when they "hit rock bottom" i.e. perhaps through addictions or other sinful choices. what is more rock bottom than knowing you are going to die very soon?

TK

Post by **_21centpilgrim** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:55 pm

Something I found helpfull in whole question of deathbed conversions is the following quotes from an old puritan William Guthrie

" The Bible, which ranges over a period of four thousand years, records but one instance of a death-bed cconversion- one that none may despair, and but one that none may presume."

also

" There be few at all saved....... and fewest saved this way."

Grace and peace, Jeremiah

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:56 pm

Ofcourse I am the first to admit that this is a tough one, and I don't think there is a simple answer. I believe that anyone who hears the gospel, and puts there trust in Jesus is saved. But where do we draw the line in death bed situations? Or is there a line to be drawn? I trusted Christ because I was at my "rock bottom" and knew that I was on my way to hell. I later realized that I should have trusted Christ because he deserves it, and should not have been so self centered. But from that initial faith and trust, I now have a relationship with God through Christ. So my point is, sometimes motives can paint one picture, and the outcome another. At least one who confesses Christ on there death bed are showing some sort of reverence. I guess it boils down to the heart of the person on the bed.

Post by **_RFCA** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:53 am

I definitely agree that only God discerns or knows what's in the heart of a person.. and of that woman in the situation at hand. What I can only do is assume, thus I'm not asserting anything here.

I'm inclined to think the woman was not truly converted. Throughout the Bible, we see that God responds or gives merit to man's call for help/mercy or demonstration of trust on God or in Jesus.
To name a few:

1) The thief on the cross "Remember me when you are in your Kingdom" 2) Blind Bartimaues "Son of David have mercy on me"
3) The woman who was bleeding for many years "If I could only touch the hem of his garment"
4) King Hezekiah "Remember, O LORD, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes. -- And Hezekiah wept bitterly. "
5) Rahab of Jericho "I know that The Lord has given you the land, and that the fear of you has fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land melt away before you. For we have heard how The Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites that were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. And as soon as we heard it, our hearts melted, and there was no courage left in any man, because of you; for The Lord your God is He Who is God in heaven above and on earth beneath."

Going back to the story.. I do not see a taint of "Have mercy on me!", "I am helpless and afraid... you are my only hope", "You are my king, my God" type of a heart condition in the woman. She was not in a state of desperation. In fact, she was even willing to follow her husband to hell (she thought he's there). She's mindful of nothingelse except that she be reunited to her husband... She doesn't really care where she's going and how to get there. It seems to me that the object of her faith was not Jesus, it was the husband.

Peace!

Post by **_livingink** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:23 pm

Homer,

In looking at your original post again I'd just like to ask how your thoughts here square with what I thought were your thoughts on baptism? Maybe my memory is failing me but I thought that you thought that a person couldn't be saved without baptism. Except for the occasional Plan B person--I can not remember the thread where we discussed this about a year ago though I tried to look it up again.

livingink