Jesus is the law

[Guest]

In essence, Jesus became the law for us when he fulfilled the law therefore whenever we obey him we have also obeyed all the laws ritual and moral laws.

[Guest]

Hello, Paul,

I disagree. Your assertion does not hold water. If I fulfill my tax obligations perfectly, it does not follow that you will be considered to have fulfilled all of your tax obligations, so long as you do what I say.

Jesus' conduct does not eclipse or displace another person's obligation to the word of God.

Shalom,
Emmet

[Guest]

I disagree. Your assertion does not hold water. If I fulfill my tax obligations perfectly, it does not follow that you will be considered to have fulfilled all of your tax obligations, so long as you do what I say.

Hi Emmet, I know you were not addressing me but I thought I would throw my comment in.

What if you were so rich and generous, that you decided to pay my taxes for me, so as long as I did what you said?

Robin

[Guest]

Hi, Robin,

I know you were not addressing me but I thought I would throw my comment in.

I do the same thing .

What if you were so rich and generous, that you decided to pay my taxes for me, so as long as I did what you said?

At this point the illustration breaks down. Unlike money, obedience is not a transferable commodity. Perhaps I might invoke military service as an illustration? I can only serve my own draft notice; I cannot fulfill the government's claim on my friend's service, no matter how many years I may spend as a faithful soldier.


Shalom,
Emmet

[Guest]

Hi Emmet,

At this point the illustration breaks down. Unlike money, obedience is not a transferable commodity. Perhaps I might invoke military service as an illustration? I can only serve my own draft notice; I cannot fulfill the government's claim on my friend's service, no matter how many years I may spend as a faithful soldier.

But this is the point for Christians. We don't see Jesus as just another human, but as the Son of God who was sent to accomplish something that you or I are unable to do. If Jesus were only human (like you or I) than we would agree, that Jesus would be limited in his capacity to make me acceptable before God. Jesus is greater than Moses, Abraham, David, or any other person that ever lived. In His Deity Jesus was able to fulfill the law and pay the price for all.

As far as your military analogy goes, If God is the Commander and Chief, and He has sent a mighty warrior to defeat his enemies by himself, then that warrior has already fulfilled my obligation and there is no need for me to fight any longer. I can join the victorious army and enjoy the spoils of war.

Robin

[Guest]

As a disciple of Christ, I see it as follows:

The law of Moses was largely external. To make it worse, some of the Pharisees used tactics to avoid fulfilling even that, but yet appearing to do so.

Jesus got to the heart of the law, and to a person's motives, and not merely the external act. For example, He said:

You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire. Matthew 5:21,22 RSV

Sometimes, He taught what seemed contrary to the law of Moses. For example, where the law taught vengeance, getting even, Jesus taught rendering good for evil:

You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well;
and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:38-45 RSV

Secondly, Paul taught that a person can become enabled to work righteousness and avoid doing evil. This enablement comes from the grace of God made available via Christ's death.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
RSV

1 Peter 2:24 He himself endured our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensibly, righteously, and piously in this aged, awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works.
Titus 2:11-14

[Guest]

Thanks to all for your replies.

[Guest]

Hello, Robin,

Thank you for your response.

But this is the point for Christians. We don't see Jesus as just another human, but as the Son of God who was sent to accomplish something that you or I are unable to do. If Jesus were only human (like you or I) than we would agree, that Jesus would be limited in his capacity to make me acceptable before God. Jesus is greater than Moses, Abraham, David, or any other person that ever lived. In His Deity Jesus was able to fulfill the law and pay the price for all.

It does not matter if Jesus is a human or a superhero or (blasphemy) God himself. Personal character is not a traffickable commodity, and only an individual can fulfill their own personal responsibility. This is the great burden and dignity of God creating each of us as independent agents, both free to exercise our own choice and accountable for doing so. In the end, each person stands responsible before God alone, uneclipsed and unaided by any other.

This is necessary because in the end each person will be trusted to exercise their choice in such a way that it does not violate the order of the world to come. Only we can fulfill that trust - and though we depend upon our God to patiently nurture us to worthiness, only we can become worthy of that trust.

As far as your military analogy goes, If God is the Commander and Chief, and He has sent a mighty warrior to defeat his enemies by himself, then that warrior has already fulfilled my obligation and there is no need for me to fight any longer. I can join the victorious army and enjoy the spoils of war.

But you are mistaken about why the soldier has been drafted into service. It is not merely to vanquish an enemy, but to learn the discipline of the cadre. No Captain America can accomplish that vicariously, even for the lowliest private.


Shalom,
Emmet

[Guest]

Hi Emmett,

Do you believe that we have to observe the "Law of Sabbath"?

[Guest]

Hello, Paul,

Do you believe that we have to observe the "Law of Sabbath"?

Who is "we"?

Shalom,
Emmet