Is anybody else a little weary of this...?

Post by **_anothersteve** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:59 am

I have really enjoyed reading through this topic...I just wanted to share my observation.

I have seen the following from what I've read:

1. Desire to not slip down the slippery slope of worldliness (1 Pet 4:2-4 and Rom 12:1-2)
-it's easy sometimes to be affected by the world and learn it's ways... we need to be on gaurd.

2 Desire to not be quick to jugde our brother (John 7:24 and Rom 14:4)
-it's so easy to judge another person without the facts so we need to be careful

3. Desire to not compromise God's message (Eph 4:15)
-it's easy to compromise and not share what God would have us say

I see all of these desires as Godly desires and I've seen them all expressed throughout this thread.

I appreciate the desire to be set apart for Christ....it's encouraging to see. The question is "what does that look like?". I think if you have that sincere desire burning within you then I trust that Christ will keep each of his disciples on the right path....no matter what it may look like to others.

I also apprecitate the desire to not be quick to judge a brother. I was around an individual early in my Christian life who was very judgmental of others. One thing I learned is that it's not that hard to judge....in fact anyone can do it...it's quite natural. What's not natural is putting on the mind of Christ when observing others.

To summurize...I think the passion expressed in not conforming to the world is great but I also think it's just as important to be reminded to not be quick to judge. Both, in my estimation, are the mind of Christ.

Steve

Post by **_TK** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:48 pm

here is a fairly hard-hitting article that discusses many of the points raised above, including the christian music scene.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~revival/coolbk.html

also, another one by keith green:

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/arti ... e&aid=3356

TK

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:55 pm

Very good articles, TK. This bit in Keith Green's article really encapsulates what I've been trying to say about Christian artists:

It's the "Look at me!" attitude I have seen in concert after concert, and the "Can't you see we're as good as the world?" syndrome I have heard on record after record. Jesus doesn't want us to be as good as the world, He wants us to he better!

What I've seen and experienced personally is that there is a tremendous pressure put upon Christian artists to "tone things down" (aka "not be worldly") by other Christians. After all, we don't want to cause anyone to stumble. So often this results in the type of insipid mediocrity that is prevelant in Contemporary Christian Music. This is why many bands take the approach of POD that "We're Christians in a band, but we're not a Christian band." They're trying to get out from under those stifling expectations. There's an old anecdote about crabs that if you put a bunch of crabs in a big pot of hot water and a crab tries to climb out, the other crabs will pull it back in. Maybe another way to express this is that "A prophet is honored everywhere except in his hometown."

Case in point: I love Keith Green's music. I love the raw passion for God. Keith Green live was powerful and intense and worshipful and a little scary. Yet on his records, the passion was toned down by lame pop arrangements and layers of syrupy production (IMHO!). He was made palatable and safe and inoffensive.

Contrast that with Bob Marley. Marley was to Rastafarianism what Keith Green should have been to Christianity. Marley's music was powerful, unique and revolutionary. He brought reggae and Rastafarianism to the world. He was an ambassador for his religion. His music still sounds fresh and relevant today. Dang, I wish he had been a Christian! Then again, I wonder if his music would have been completely ruined by the pressure towards mediocrity had he been a Christian artist.

Of course, the definition of "worldly" is often based on tastes, presuppositions, culture, etc. and not so much on actual scripture.

As far as the "Look at me!" attitude, couldn't the same be said for many preachers? The whole concept of putting fellow Christians up on a stage seems to be contradictory to scripture. I'm much more disturbed when I detect the "Look at me!" attitude in the guise of ministry (preaching, worship, etc.). On the other hand, if someone is on stage explicitly to entertain (be they an actor, musician, chainsaw juggler, etc.) then at least they're not being hypocritical. But then, I think entertainment for entertainment's sake is not evil.

Post by **_TK** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:44 pm

mort said:

Of course, the definition of "worldly" is often based on tastes, presuppositions, culture, etc. and not so much on actual scripture.

this brings up a huge question, then. what does the Bible mean when it says to separate from the world, be "in" it but not "of" it, etc etc etc?

a week or so ago i thought i knew the answer, but now i am not so sure.

TK

Post by **_schoel** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:28 pm

anothersteve wrote:I appreciate the desire to be set apart for Christ....it's encouraging to see. The question is "what does that look like?". I think if you have that sincere desire burning within you then I trust that Christ will keep each of his disciples on the right path....no matter what it may look like to others.

I also apprecitate the desire to not be quick to judge a brother. I was around an individual early in my Christian life who was very judgmental of others. One thing I learned is that it's not that hard to judge....in fact anyone can do it...it's quite natural. What's not natural is putting on the mind of Christ when observing others.

To summurize...I think the passion expressed in not conforming to the world is great but I also think it's just as important to be reminded to not be quick to judge. Both, in my estimation, are the mind of Christ.

That encapsulates my thoughts exactly.
Thanks Steve!

I think the passion for holiness may cause us to see holiness as defined through a certain cultural lense. We can tend to start with behaviour (no drinking, no smoking, no dancing, no rock and roll, no tattoos, etc) in defining what holiness looks like. However, we may be restricting allowed behaviour to a smaller space than what Jesus or Scripture does.

My passion is to live in holiness as Jesus did, not by rules and regulations, but by devotion to Christ and obedience to the Spirit of God.

This doesn't mean rejecting the standards taught in Scripture.

This does mean rethinking (and rescinding) some sacred cows and paradigms in Western cultural Christianity.

My feelings in this are vividly described by Paul...
Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
(Phillipians 3:12-16)

Dave