Mormons

Post by **_schoel** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:40 pm

A pair of LDS missionaries stopped by a few hours ago, and as I and the boys were headed out for a walk, I was unable to speak with them for very long.
However, we set up a time for them to come by again.

My questions for them will be (and are all interrelated):

Why is the God of LDS different that the God revealed in the Bible?

How do I know that Joseph Smith's revelation was really from God?

Why should we trust Joseph Smith? Isn't this all dependent on his word?

Why isn't the NT as we have it today reliable?

How does one distinguish that a "burning of the bosom" is God leading and not just heartburn?

What would you ask them?

Any thoughts or pertinent scripture references are appreciated.

Post by **_Derek** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:49 pm

I would recommend Steve's lecture on Mormonism to you. It's over at the
http://www.digitalministries.us/page10.html website. Very good.

God bless and good luck!

Post by **_Roger** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:50 pm

Hey Schoel,

I had two Mormon fellows stop by where I was working last week and being self employed I had the liberty to invite them in for a discussion. I had just finished reading a historical book on the settling of the American west and the history of Joseph Smith being led by moroni to the golden plates etc. was all part of the history of the book.

So I talked with them about the Mormons at Nauvou Ill. and their early history. My main point with them was concerning the so called "golden plates" that Joseph Smith supposedly translated into english. Afterwards an angel took the plates back to heaven. The point being that there is no proof that these plates ever existed.

I argued with them that we have documents dating way back hundreds and thousands of years both in greek and hebrew that document that what we call the Bible actually was translated from something. They of course do not have anything except a story. When I confronted them about this they said that God wanted them to live by faith alone and this was their escape from not needing any documentation about their translation.

I continued to argue with them that there were many around the world willing to lay down their lives for their faith whether they be christians, budhists, muslims etc. and all are convinced that they have the truth. I asked them that if they were going to give their lives to God that they should consider whether what they have is the truth or not.

I have prayed for them and only hope that at some future point they may come to a point of questioning within themselves and a door may be opened within them for the Holy Spirit to bring them to the truth.

Post by **_Micah** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:10 pm

Personally, I would keep the topic on Jesus Christ. You could spend all year long discussing the virtues and non-virtues of Joseph Smith, but that isn't going to have an affect on them.

I think the whole debate to have with them is 'Who is Jesus Christ?' I would try and steer them to all scriptures that talk about Jesus and ask them to give a reason for the differences.

I remember having long debates with Jehovah Witnesses and you get sucked up into little tangents real quick. Try to keep the topic focused on Christ because really all other things are inconsequential. Anyways, that is how I would approach it. May the Holy Spirit guide you Schoel.

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:29 pm

I recommend http://www.lhvm.org and their wonderful research on LDS. DNA vs. the Book of Mormon & The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon. Check out these two videos and they will rock your world.

Post by **_roblaine** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:34 pm

Hi Schoel,
I was intrested in finding out how your visit went with the Mormon Missionaries. This is close to my heart because my father is Mormon, and I have had very little success in discussing the problmes associated with Mormon theolagy.

Post by **_schoel** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:51 am

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.

I was planning on meeting with them (2 missionaries) last Saturday and they never showed. They called me a few days ago and let me know that their car had broken down. So we rescheduled for this Sunday evening.

My plan is to focus on why I need to have the "true" gospel restored. I to prevent any trips down "bunny trails" but to focus primarily on the question of "Why can't we trust the original words of Jesus as recorded in the NT?"

I will update the thread on how it goes. If you wouldn't mind praying that the Holy Spirit guides my words and plants a seed.
Also pray that I won't accidently convert

Dave

Post by **_schoel** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:52 am

**Oops!
I accidentally double posted.

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:13 pm

My two main intellectual problems with Mormonism are these:

1. How could the "urim and thummim" of Joseph Smith be a pair of glasses by which, when worn, translated the Reformed Egyptian writing into English, when all references in the Old Testament describe its use as more like tossing a coin to determine God's will.

2. In the account in the Book of Mormon of Christ supposedly appearing on this continent and giving the same teaching to "the other sheep" as He did to his disciples in the middle east, why did the urim and thummim give the translation in King James English? Even more importantly, why are large portions identical with the accounts found in the King James Bible?

An interesting little aside:

In one portion, it is written something like, "I ,Nephi, lifted up mine eyes and beheld the Lamanites, the ......, and several other kinds of ites."

What is an "ite"? Is that a word coined by Joseph Smith?

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:52 am

Paidon, concerning the KJV question. I asked this of a couple of Mormon Missionaries, several years ago, and I was told since the KJV is from the language of God then He remained consistant by using the same whether prior to the translation or not.