2 Thes. 2:13

Post by **_Derek** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:32 am

2 Thes. 2:13

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

I was wondering if I could get some of your opinions on the doctrine of election.

Is this corporate election? "through...belief of the truth"? Is this (and other verses) stating that God chose the church in Christ? And not necessarilly individuals.

Thanks for the help!

God bless,

Post by **_TK** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:59 am

i just happen to be listening to steve's calvinism series to better acquaint myself with the issues. the verse quoted seems to put a condition on being chose to salvation, namely "belief in the truth." i think it can refer to individual "election;" namely God elects those who believe in the truth. all those who do so are "elected" so in a sense this results in a corporate election.

the "from the beginning" language, to me, refers to the plan that God set up the conditions required to be chosen for salvation-- i.e. belief. in other words, God's plan from the beginning was to save those who believed.

TK

Post by **_roblaine** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:22 am

TK wrote:i just happen to be listening to steve's calvinism series to better acquaint myself with the issues. the verse quoted seems to put a condition on being chose to salvation, namely "belief in the truth." i think it can refer to individual "election;" namely God elects those who believe in the truth. all those who do so are "elected" so in a sense this results in a corporate election.

the "from the beginning" language, to me, refers to the plan that God set up the conditions required to be chosen for salvation-- i.e. belief. in other words, God's plan from the beginning was to save those who believed.

TK

TK, I know I did not ask the question but it seems very timley. On my way to work this morning I was listening to Key Life with Steve Brown (who is a calvanist) and he was teaching on this passage. Then I read the post by Derek and was looking for a good answer myself. you seem to have done a good job explaining the passage. Thank you.

Post by **_Derek** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:13 pm

TK, I know I did not ask the question but it seems very timley. On my way to work this morning I was listening to Key Life with Steve Brown (who is a calvanist) and he was teaching on this passage. Then I read the post by Derek and was looking for a good answer myself. you seem to have done a good job explaining the passage. Thank you.

I was listening to the same thing. That's why I posted it. Small world.

More later...

God bless,

Post by **_TK** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:10 pm

steve brown may be a calvinist but he has been one of my favorites for a long time, especially because he doesnt take himself too seriously. he says a lot of good things.

TK

Post by **_roblaine** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:36 pm

TK wrote:steve brown may be a calvinist but he has been one of my favorites for a long time, especially because he doesnt take himself too seriously. he says a lot of good things.

TK

I agree with you.

Post by **_Paidion** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:24 pm

2 Thess 2:13 ...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

I think there may be some misunderstanding as to what "chosen you to salvation" means. Somewhere in the back of our minds we think of "salvation" being primarily saved from hell. But we are primarily being saved from SIN. It's a process.

God has from the beginning chosen people to be saved from sin completely. This process is still going on. For those who are co-operating with the "good work" which the Lord began in us, the process will be complete at the return of the Lord Jesus, who will, at that time, put the finishing touches on it. Through God's part ----sanctification by the Spirit (being set apart by the Spirit) and our part ---"belief in the truth" of the gospel (and responding to it, of course), that salvation process will be complete.

The following verse also shows that God "predestined" (literally "pre-appointed) us to completed salvation, when we will be Christ-like:

Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.

Post by **_TK** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:38 pm

I dont know why i always fall for the trap of limiting salvation to being saved from hell vs being save from sins, especially when Paidion calls me (us) on it every time.

I agree that your interpretation may in fact be correct, Paidion. thanks for the reminder (again).

TK

Post by **_Ely** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:07 pm

Based on Robert Shank's observation that election is primarily corporate and only secondarily individual, in this case, I guess we would say that some people are indeed individually elect to "salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" but only because they are in Christ, through faith in Him. The next question would have to be: does every man have the ability to put their faith in Christ on hearing the gospel message? Answer, yes they do. Hallelujah!

Post by **_21centpilgrim** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:10 pm

I think that Steve Brown and Steve Gregg should get together and debate, I love listening to both of these men. Any thoughts?

In regards to the Calvinism/Arminianism on going debate has anyone ever referenced or brought up Packers book Evangelism And The Soveriegnty of God? Wouldn't want to rehash some of the same points he makes if someone has brought them up.

Also I agree with Paidion that salvation is a process 1Cor.1:18 " For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing , but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." And that we are being sanctified by the Spirit into the image of Christ but also the writer of Hebrews mentions a few times of believers being santified by the blood of Christ once and for all, set apart once and for all by the blood of Jesus. So it can be refered to as a one time event.

Grace and Peace, Jeremiah