The Pledge during Worship

[Guest]

Hey people

For those of you who don't know, I'm an assistant pastor in a Wesleyan Church. We have a very patriotic congregation (several of our people, or their children are currently serving the military overseas).

This past Sunday, to remember 9-11, it was in our 'order of worship' to pledge allegiance to the American flag during our early morning worship service (during which, I am seated on the platform). I have a personal conviction not to pledge allegiance to any flag or nation of this world, but I didn't want to sit on the platform and offend others.

So, I simply asked our senior pastor if I could not be on the platform that given day and there were no problems. I sat in the sound booth while everyone else stood and pledged allegiance to the flag.

My question is, as the main 'teaching' pastor of this congregation, do you think it is worth addressing this issue directly? I mean, I have taught numerous times over the past few years about how we are, first and foremost, citizens of heaven and how our full allegiance is due to Him. But I know there would be many offended Christians if they knew I didn't pledge allegiance to our national flag.

Does this issue touch Paul's teaching about not offending a weaker brother, or is it a hill worth fighting for? I know that the members of our congregation aren't worshipping our nation when they said the pledge, they were just paying respect to its people, of whom they are part.

What do you think?

[Guest]

Hi Matt,

That is a very hard question for me to answer. I also do not believe in pledging unconditional allegiance to any authority other than God—and for that reason I have never pledged allegiance to any flag in my adult life (that is, since I reached an age when I could reflect on what it means to make pledges).

I have no problem, however, showing respect either to respectability or to rank. Paul seemed to feel an obligation to defer to the ranking high priest, though the man was corrupt. I think there is, in hierarchical societal structures, a time when one can "salute the uniform," so to speak, regardless of the respectability of its wearer.

Insofar as a salute to the flag means nothing more than showing a proper respect to the authority of the republic established by the founding documents, I don't suppose this would present any conflict of loyalties for a Christian.

It is the pledge itself that gives specific meaning to the salute, and, as I have said, it is impossible for a Christian to pledge an unconditionaly allegiance to any entity other than God, to whom he has already given his total allegiance. One cannot serve two masters, and should not promise to do so.

If you teach your congregation what the Kingdom of God is, and what it means to be a citizen of heaven, a stranger and a pilgrim on earth, and an ambassador of God in America, the time may come when you can gently challenge them to think about how consistent these things are with one's taking the pledge of allegiance to the flag.

Short of your first building these theological foundations, I doubt if the average Christian would understand your objections to the salute, and they would just write you off as a radical—possibly not only destroying your opportunity to change their behavior in this matter, but also to have any further impact through your teaching. Be as wise as serpents, but as harmless as doves.

[Guest]

Personally I have no problem allying myself with my country through a pledge of alligence to a flag as long as that loyalty does not supercede my loyalty to God. Many a man has been, for example a consiencious objector and this has not raised a question of loyalty to the nation. There is a provision for such things. To me it just takes common sense and the fact that you must understand your own convictions. God does not call us down for being loyal to our families, to love and protect them just as Christ does the Church. I see no contradiction in being able to have more than one loyalty as long as they are placed in order of priority.

[Guest]

Hi Matt--

i, personally, dont see how pledging allegiance to the flag has anything to do with my relationship with God.

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the united states of america
and to the republic, for which it stands
one nation, under God
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

to me this just means that i am identifying myself as an American, which I indeed am. i have never even considered the possibility that when i am stating the pledge, i am somehow putting the USA before God. this is certainly not my intent, nor is it i think 99.9999% of other Christians' intent.

I agree with Steve rather strongly that you should probably let this sleeping dog lie. people will simply not understand your viewpoint and you will be stirring up a major hornet's nest... especially for people who have served in the armed forces or who have loved ones doing so. i can just imagine my dad having a coniption (sp?) if he were to read your post. I would add that even if you were to speak, the likelihood of your convincing anyone to stop saying the pledge is essentially nil.

unless your conscience truly tells you that a person cannot be a true follower of Christ and also say the pledge, then i would remain quiet on this one.

but hey-- you can do what you want-- it's a free country after all!

TK

[Guest]

thanks for the replies

I should have probably stated my reasoning for not wanting to say the pledge. Almost exactly a year ago, I noticed that I had become overly focused on political debates/discussions. I found myself defending politicians (and that takes a lot of time and research sometimes!). And, I found that sometimes they were very hard to defend. I also found myself to be a little ethnocentric in some ways. At that time, God challenged my allegiance to my country/culture and political affiliations. And I felt one of the best ways to constantly remind myself of my re-focused commitment to Christ was to never pledge allegiance to anyone/thing other than God

I don't consider pledging allegiance to the flag wrong. I just abstain and use that time to remind myself of my commitment to be a radical citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven.

thanks again for the advice. I'll take it.

[Guest]

matt said:

I noticed that I had become overly focused on political debates/discussions. I found myself defending politicians (and that takes a lot of time and research sometimes!).

that's exactly why i stopped listening to talk radio! (sorry Rush)

i figure i have several hundred hours left of steve's teaching to listen to which i have found to be much more profitable.

TK

[Guest]

I just want to double what TK said. My father also, who is a vietnam vet, would think your words as "fightin' words" and would not be receptive to anything you said after that. I think if you wanted to do a sermon on giving unto caesar what is caesar's and give unto God what is God's, than I think you can innocently convey your message of putting God above your country.

However, remember that when someone volunteers to put their life on the line for their country they are not doing it for politicians, but for what the country stands for. Its ideals of freedom and liberty that allows one to worship God without fear of retribution. Obviously their might be rare cases of people doing it for other reasons, but I think the majority join the military for the aforementioned reason, at least I know I would if I joined.

[Guest]

I agree. I definitely respect those who are willing to put their life on the line and even give their life for the freedom of others. I love my earthly country and am indebted to their service.

[Guest]

My son is in the armed forces serving this country.

If you have this conviction thats not a problem, just remember to pray for those who salute the flag and are dying so you can sit in church.

thank you

[Guest]

I realize it can be an emotional issue

Please understand that I can pray for soldiers and respect those who risk/give their lives just as much as you w/o pledging allegiance to an earthly nation.

God bless you and your son,
matthew