Does a real christian not struggle with habitual sins?

[Guest]

I was told that a real born again christian can simply ask God for the strength and grace to overcome sin and then God will give it to him!
This means that no born again christian could possible struggle with sin the way it is described in romans 7. Is this true?
Then maybe I am not even born again.

[Guest]

hi beaver-- i believe that whoever told you this meant that God will help you in your struggle with temptation, not that you will not be tempted. the Bible says that we will not be tempted more than we can bear, and that God will show us a way out if we let Him. . in Romans 7, i take Paul to be speaking of himself. was he born again? of course! our fleshly struggle with temptation is a lifelong struggle. the key is that we must strive to struggle and not give in. steve talks about this is his spiritual warfare series-- you know how the Lord's prayer has the line "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." steve explained that this doesnt really mean that we will never be tempted (because elsewhere in scripture it is stated that we will be) but rather that we are asking God that when we are tempted, that He will show us the way out and help us in our struggle. As believers we are commanded to resist and not give in. remember that being tempted is not a sin. per scripture, if we resist, the devil will flee from us. what it doesnt say is how long or how often we will have to resist before he will flee. we just need to do it until he leaves.

if the problem is continuing to lose the struggle (i.e. sin), then drastic measures need to be taken to assure that the battle is won; i.e. one must deal ruthlessly with the sin- Jesus talked about cutting off hands and plucking out eyes to stress the importance of dealing ruthlessly with sin. the problem-- and the difficult thing-- is deciding to take the ruthless action. if it was easy, it wouldnt be a battle.

your fellow struggler, TK

[Guest]

Hi Beaver,

I agree with TK here.

1 Cor 10:12-13
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
NKJV

No believer has to sin. But that's to be understood in the same way that no toddler beginning to walk has to fall down as their learning to walk. But the fact is they do, and so do we.

But just like walking, it should become less and less frequent. The first thing that needs to go with habitual sins are those that are pre-meditated. That is, when the choice is before you and there's time to contemplate what to do, a true believer should always choose what is right. Obedience to Christ must trump all other motivations.

However, just as a full grown man falls from time to time when walking, so does a mature believer commit sin. The difference is that it is usually something that catches him off-guard, like tripping over something in the dark.

In my opinion, the sins that overtake a mature Christian are those that are not expected (outbursts of anger, careless words spoken, etc.). We each have a lifetime of sinful patterns and ways we're used to reacting to certain things, and sometimes these just naturally come out when we least expect it. These should begin to diminish as we grow as Christians.

I've once heard Steve say that in order for Satan to get you sin, he must first get you to believe a lie. I agree with that idea for pre-meditated sins. We must either believe something is not sin at all, or that we will get away with it or we wouldn't do it. But, like I said, I think certain habitual sins are simply a reactive part of our personality and oftentimes take a lot longer to master. I believe God can (and sometimes does) instantly take away our propensity towards certain sins, but I don't think it's always his will to do so.

We should never be comfortable or apathetic in our sins, but we also need to keep it in perspective and allow it to keep us humble and completely dependent upon God.

Lord bless.

[Guest]

Beaver, We all sin and fall short. If you are doubting your salvation because you sin then don't. But if you are continually Habitially sining without conviction then that is another matter. The Lord made us slaves to righteousness and not slaves to sin. I still sin, but through prayer and the word and guidence of the Holy Spirit I sinless, but am not sinlis.

1John 5:13 says: These things are written that we may know that we have eternal life.

[Guest]

But what if I simply mess it up in the moments when I should resist?
This is the problem. In these deciding moments I mess it up. I don't even try to resist. Sometimes I do and fail but many times I don't even have much resistance. And then later I think how am I even able to sin, how can I suppress the feeling of guilt for this time? Nobody would steal if he knew that he is being watched, but I can sin even though I know God knows it, how is this possible?
But I really don't know HOW to have victory. I have tried to gear up my will, it didn't work very long. As soon as I get depressed or frustrated I fail. Or when my relationship with God is disturbed then I also sin much easier because I feel like it doesn't matter anyway because my relationship is already so bad.
I have searched help from some christians and asked how exactly I become free but they couldn't really help me. No matter what I do is wrong. If I gear up my will I fail and also christians will say that you cannot win this way anyway. But if I don't try to resist then it's also wrong. So what shall I do?`I have prayed and I have wanted to finally change something so often but I fail time and time again and I don't even have faith in myself anymore, how can I have faith that it'll ever change when I fail all the time?
I thought resisting is important but then I read a book which said if you try to fight sin in your own strength you are bringing strange fire to God.
Great! This means no matter what I do is wrong. I also think that I might be addicted to some sins. I read that sinning can release neurotransmitters which make you happy and once you're addicted to this then it'll repeat itself again and again.

And does this mean that if I do not get rid of habitual sins I'll go to hell? Because christians say that a real christian cannot sin habitually. But if he cannot do this then how often does a real christian sin? like once every week or once every months?

[Guest]

Beaver, I hope that I can be of some help. It sounds as if you are realy searching and bothered greatly by this. I would like to begin by saying this; If you could ever identify with who you are in Christ. Paul said it is no longer I who lives, but Christ within me.

First thing to establish, is Christ in you? Secondly if He is then you have been forgiven for all your sins. Past present and the future.
Are you feeling guilt or conviction? These questions you need to ask yourself and honestly.

There are times in all of our lives when we do what we shouldn't do. We do what you call, mess up. We must learn to walk in the Spirit. In order to do this you have to establish if Christ is in you. If He is He has left the Holy Spirit to lead and to guide you.

In Romans 7: 14-25 Paul Had a problem with carnality and sin and look at the answeron how to overcome it in verse 25.
He said I thank god-through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God. but with the flesh the law of sin.
Then in Romans chapter 8:1,2: There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the l;aw of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

When Jesus sets one free, they are free from sin and the bondage of it.
You are free indeed.

Beaver, Now let me say this with all my love and heart for what you are dealing with. "You said no matter what you do is wrong!" If you have been born again, then you have been justified and their was a heavy price paid for your sins. Jesus holds no wrongs against you and your sins have been cast as far as the east to the west. Their is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Now on the other hand when one that does not have that relationship with Jesus. Then the devil will guilt you to no end. You see; he can't do that with me because I identify with who I am in Christ Jesus.

I am a child of the King! I am forgiven! I am his son! He will never leave me nor forsake me! Because of all these things and many more, I try to live a holy and sinless life, but just like Pual and you. I mess up. My motive for living now is no longer to please the flesh, but the Spirit.

If this doesn't help? You keep seeking, you keep asking and the answers will come.

[Guest]

Beaver, I know where you're coming from. I've struggled with the same things myself. The only thing I've found that helps me has been taking my eyes off myself, cease trying to force myself to stop sinning through pure willpower (which gave out eventually) and simply look to the Father.

Instead of concentrating on how badly I was sinning, I started carving out time each day to talk to Him and dwell on the Word. It took time, and I'm still not where I'd like to be, but I have noticed a definite change in me. And it comes naturally from within, not from self-effort. I'm more patient, more giving, more loving . . . and it's all from the power within me and not me!

One of the things that helped me tremendously was Wayne Jacobsen's teachings on the Cross and the Father's love. It's eight hours woth of teaching, but those hours flew by as I cleaned house and listened, and I was sorry when it ended. I really encourage you to give them a try:
http://www.lifestream.org/transition/transition.html

[Guest]

Plus, beaver, the fact that you are so bothered by this is a very good sign. it would be more of a concern if you weren't bothered by it.

i certainly agree with everything everyone else has said. but i understand your frustration-- you are perhaps looking for practical ways to resist temptation-- more practical than agreeing intellectually that you are forgiven and all that stuff. but what RO says is true- the more time you spend in the word and in prayer the stronger you will become. you really have to abide in Jesus in order to reap the benefits. just as building your muscles or learning karate will help with physical bullies, fighting spiritual "bullies" requires the same type of discipline.

thx for your honesty, by the way. TK

[Guest]

Beaver,

Consider James 5:14-16:

14. "Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16. Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

After considerable study, it is my sincere belief that this passage in James is in reference to spiritual problems rather than physical illness as popularly taught.

In verse 14 the word "sick" is a translation of the Greek word asthenei which literally means to be weak, feeble, or sick. It is used often in scripture to refer to physical illness and also spiritual weakness. Paul used it many times in the latter sense, referring to weak in faith.

In verse 15 we find the word "sick" to be a translation of a different Greek word, kamno, which basically means to be wearied or fatigued. Kamno is used only three times in the New Testament. In both of the other places it is used, other than here in James, it is in reference to weariness, not physical sickness. Hebrews 12:3 "...lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls". Revelations 2:3 "and you have perservered and have patience, and have labored for my name's sake and have not become weary.

James promises three benefits: The prayer of faith will "save" (rescue) the weary one; The Lord will "raise him up" as He alone has the power to do; and any sins committed will be forgiven.

I realize many will object who like to apply this passage to physical healing. I would reply that the healing mentioned appears to be guaranteed and Christians appear to get sick and die about as often as unbelievers. And which is of more importance, physical or spiritual health?

I would encourage you to find elders, spiritual men, to whom you can candidly and confidentially discuss you troubles and ask them to pray for you as James describes.

You are in my prayers.

May God bless and strengthen you, Homer

[Guest]

You have described a struggle that we all endure. So don't feel alone.
TK and RO both mentioned what I consider to be key. Don't focus on your sin, your mistakes and failures. Focus on Christ. The more we are consumed with Jesus, the less our desires can focus on sin. The battle with sin isn't over until we die, so plan for a long haul.
Hebrews 12:1-2
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.



Something that I've found practically helpful in wrestling with sin is fasting. I generally fast from food, but one can fast from anything that one may be particularly attached to.

Fasting is an effective way to remind myself that life is not primarily about our needs, but that it is about the kingdom of God (Matthew 6:25-34). In my experiences, fasting has provided a heightened focus and sensitivity to the things of God and stifles my desire to sin. It also allows me to cut through the clamor of that which is fleeting and focus on that which is eternal.

Remember that fasting is only as effective as you focus on Christ. It is not a formula or a ritual that has value in and of itself (many pagans fast as a part of their religious practice) but is a tool that can be used effectively to muffle the "desires of the flesh" in order to focus on what God wants.


Dave