When did Jesus realize who He was?
- _AARONDISNEY
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When did Jesus realize who He was?
I've given this a minimal amount of thought and have not come to any conclusive conclusions. Just wondering what some of you thought. Did He always know and remember who He was from eternity past? Did He have to reach a point of maturity to realize who He was? Was it when God's voice audibly stated that He was the Son of God at His baptism?
I'll probably not interrupt, but just read opinions because I'm not even sure where I stand on this. Maybe I'll form an opinion from your insight.
I'll probably not interrupt, but just read opinions because I'm not even sure where I stand on this. Maybe I'll form an opinion from your insight.
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- _Evangelion
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Re: When did Jesus realize who He was?
AARONDISNEY wrote:I've given this a minimal amount of thought and have not come to any conclusive conclusions. Just wondering what some of you thought. Did He always know and remember who He was from eternity past? Did He have to reach a point of maturity to realize who He was? Was it when God's voice audibly stated that He was the Son of God at His baptism?
I'll probably not interrupt, but just read opinions because I'm not even sure where I stand on this. Maybe I'll form an opinion from your insight.
- Luke 2:42-49
And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.
But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.
And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.
And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
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People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
Søren Kierkegaard
Søren Kierkegaard
I am sure that Jesus did not know, when He was a baby that He was the only-begotten God, begotten before all ages.
On the the hand, the gnostics in the second century had Him giving great orations as a baby! So they could have believed this about Him. The gnostics had no difficulty with the idea that Jesus was divine. Their problem was believing that He was a human being.
It's true, as Evangelion quoted above that He was aware of who He was at the age of twelve. Whether or not He was aware of this at any time before the age of twelve, is unknown.
On the the hand, the gnostics in the second century had Him giving great orations as a baby! So they could have believed this about Him. The gnostics had no difficulty with the idea that Jesus was divine. Their problem was believing that He was a human being.
It's true, as Evangelion quoted above that He was aware of who He was at the age of twelve. Whether or not He was aware of this at any time before the age of twelve, is unknown.
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Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
I was thinking when Mary visited her relative Elizabeth and John lept in her womb in acknowledment of who the Christ child was in Mary, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Don't you think than if John preborn knew , Christ preborn himself would know then also who he was? Luke 1 39 thru 45 If you want to look it up. Glow
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- _Evangelion
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The preborn John didn't know anything; a baby so young has no conception of the world, and no way of experiencing it. They can't even speak until they're taught!glow wrote:I was thinking when Mary visited her relative Elizabeth and John lept in her womb in acknowledment of who the Christ child was in Mary, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Don't you think than if John preborn knew , Christ preborn himself would know then also who he was? Luke 1 39 thru 45 If you want to look it up. Glow
Elizabeth was simply using a figure of speech; the child moved within her, and she chose to characterise this as John leaping for joy. It doesn't mean that this is what actually happened.
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Søren Kierkegaard
Søren Kierkegaard
I believe Jesus knew who He was by faith. Surely Mary (and Joseph) informed Him of the circumstances of His conception and birth, and, having perfect faith, He believed it and knew who He was.
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A Berean
- _AARONDISNEY
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That makes some sense to me, Homer.Homer wrote:I believe Jesus knew who He was by faith. Surely Mary (and Joseph) informed Him of the circumstances of His conception and birth, and, having perfect faith, He believed it and knew who He was.
What kind of confuses the issue to me is that He makes some statements that seem to indicate His memory of His existence prior to His life as a man. He tells the Pharisees that Abraham rejoiced to see Him coming in the form of a man. He also prays that He would once again have the form of glory that He shared with the Father before His time on earth.
Do you think He was speaking these things by faith or by memory?
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What kind of confuses the issue to me is that He makes some statements that seem to indicate His memory of His existence prior to His life as a man. He tells the Pharisees that Abraham rejoiced to see Him coming in the form of a man. He also prays that He would once again have the form of glory that He shared with the Father before His time on earth.
Do you think He was speaking these things by faith or by memory?
Probably by memory , but by this time He was an adult. I think in Luke 2.49 when Jesus uses the phrase "I must be about MY Father's business" is a phrase unique to him. He always separated his relationship with God from everyone else by saying "your Father" and "My Father" therefore at the age of 12 it seems He knew he was the Christ. And in fact if that was'nt the case then he may have been close to sinning since he was not honoring his mother by disappearing unless his Father had told him to go to the temple.
Do you think He was speaking these things by faith or by memory?
Probably by memory , but by this time He was an adult. I think in Luke 2.49 when Jesus uses the phrase "I must be about MY Father's business" is a phrase unique to him. He always separated his relationship with God from everyone else by saying "your Father" and "My Father" therefore at the age of 12 it seems He knew he was the Christ. And in fact if that was'nt the case then he may have been close to sinning since he was not honoring his mother by disappearing unless his Father had told him to go to the temple.
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Evangelion said
The preborn John didn't know anything; a baby so young has no conception of the world, and no way of experiencing it. They can't even speak until they're taught!
Elizabeth was simply using a figure of speech; the child moved within her, and she chose to characterise this as John leaping for joy. It doesn't mean that this is what actually happened
Well I understand your comment but we are all spirit, which I believe we recieve at conception ( yes, I am against abortion) and Christ certainly could have been aware of who he was in spirit as a preborn child I think.
The word also says Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Wouldn't that imply supernatural insight? Or at least it could. This is debatable being that we are not Christ and have not walked in his shoes.
I can see also how Elizabeth could just be saying that as a comment also as far as the baby leaping in joy. I did enjoy your comments
Glow
The preborn John didn't know anything; a baby so young has no conception of the world, and no way of experiencing it. They can't even speak until they're taught!
Elizabeth was simply using a figure of speech; the child moved within her, and she chose to characterise this as John leaping for joy. It doesn't mean that this is what actually happened
Well I understand your comment but we are all spirit, which I believe we recieve at conception ( yes, I am against abortion) and Christ certainly could have been aware of who he was in spirit as a preborn child I think.
The word also says Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Wouldn't that imply supernatural insight? Or at least it could. This is debatable being that we are not Christ and have not walked in his shoes.
I can see also how Elizabeth could just be saying that as a comment also as far as the baby leaping in joy. I did enjoy your comments
Glow
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Jesus was 100% man, the last Adam the scripture says, he knew who he was as he read and studied the scripture. Having no sin nature like the rest of mankind he understood the scripture perfectly. Says I, says Scripture.
Luke 2:40 (King James Version)
40And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Luke 2:40 (Young's Literal Translation)
40and the child grew and was strengthened in spirit, being filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.
No Man ever lived before he lived, unless you adhere to the doctrine of Joseph Smith.
Luke 2:40 (King James Version)
40And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Luke 2:40 (Young's Literal Translation)
40and the child grew and was strengthened in spirit, being filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.
No Man ever lived before he lived, unless you adhere to the doctrine of Joseph Smith.
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