Born Again or Begotten Again?

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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Homer
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Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?

Post by Homer » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:56 pm

Hi Paidion,

This passage would not seem to fit into your view:

Titus 3:3-5 (NASB)
3. For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5. He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration ( Grk #3824, paliggenesia) and renewing by the Holy Spirit,


You must have an alternate understanding of palliggenesia (palin (again), genesis (birth). Genesis was used in two Gospels in reference to Herod's birthday.

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Paidion
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Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?

Post by Paidion » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:23 pm

Hi Homer,
Actually it does support my view. The word γενναω (gennaō)="beget" is the verbal form and γενεσις (genesis)="begetting" is the nominal (noun) form of the same word. The English word "generate" is derived from this word. The nominal form is usually translated as "regeneration." As I understand it, a person is physically generated in his mother's womb when the sperm unites with the egg. That is the beginning of life. But a person must be generated again to begin a truly spiritual life. This occurs when he submits himself to the authority of the Saviour. I hope to provide more detail in a future post.

But both the verbal and the nominal form differs a great deal from the word τικτω (τικτō)= "give birth", even though many translators so render them.

Actually the word γενεσις (genesis) is not translated as "birth" but as "genealogy" It is the word γενεσια (genesia) that is translated as "birthday" (as in Herod's birthday) But I am not sure that this is a correct translation. How do we know that it wasn't Herod's begetting or date of conception that was celebrated? Even in our day, there are some cultures who celebrate one's conception. Also the Catholic Church celebrates Mary's conception. It is called "The Feast of the Immaculate Conception."
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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Homer
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Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?

Post by Homer » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:27 pm

Hi Paidion,

I do not think there is any doubt that gennao in its various uses means begotten or born. But in either case it seems we can not take it literally in reference to our becoming a Christian. Paul, in numerous places, references our "adoption as sons". How can this be if we are literally "begotten" again? IMO you are not on solid ground in your argument about when we are begotten again and born again. The important thing is we become God's children in Christ.

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