Can somebody with better language skills than me, give me input?
In the ESV, Galatians 4:9 says:
9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
I was curious what word was used for "world," but found that the word is not even there! In fact, "principles of the world" does not seem to be present in the Greek.
It seems it should read, "...weak and worthless elements, whose slaves..."
I was a little shocked at this. Am I mistaken at this error?
It seems it is trying to get verse 9 to match verse 3 where the word kosmos is used, but it still seems a serious addition of words for a supposed close to literal translation.
ESV error?
Re: ESV error?
You are correct that there is no greek behind 'principles of the world'
I also think you are correct to guess that they added those words b/c of v. 3
Part of it has to do, of course, with how to best translate STOICHEIA. Even in v. 3 they've translated it 'elementary' and added 'principles.' It seems there translation of STOICHEIA is simply 'elementary principles' and they just added the 'of the world' to v. 9 to even it up with v. 3.
I also think you are correct to guess that they added those words b/c of v. 3
Part of it has to do, of course, with how to best translate STOICHEIA. Even in v. 3 they've translated it 'elementary' and added 'principles.' It seems there translation of STOICHEIA is simply 'elementary principles' and they just added the 'of the world' to v. 9 to even it up with v. 3.
Re: ESV error?
By the way, I likely don't have 'better language skills' than you, but I do have the English-Greek reverse interlinear NT (which uses the ESV) which provided the detail needed to answer your question.
- jriccitelli
- Posts: 1317
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:14 am
- Location: San Jose, CA
- Contact:
Re: ESV error?
Ha! My NASB did not have world in verse 4:9, I am also glad they used worthless rather than beggarly (that word has made me scramble for a dictionary more than once). I did a lot of debating with Mormons and I usually found it saved a lot of time (and mistakes) if I had a word for word translation handy, like the NASB (although I used the KJV when quoting a verse). I don’t blame translators for transporting the world concept from verse 4:3 to 4:9 as long as readers 'know' they have an amplification of the text.
I can't think of any critical verse where the NASB has let me down.
I can't think of any critical verse where the NASB has let me down.
Re: ESV error?
Thank Matt. I have the tools, but I like to double-check what I believe I see with people who have handled the Bible much more than myself. Especially when it seems like such a blatant issue in this case.
As for the NASB, that and the NRSV are the ones I've used the most in the past. However, I just purchased an ESV Notetaker's Bible because of how well it was setup for writing in it, so I have been using it for about a month.
It is unfortunate, but it seems for binding options the ESV blows everything else away. Must be a sign of the marketing engine behind it.
As for the NASB, that and the NRSV are the ones I've used the most in the past. However, I just purchased an ESV Notetaker's Bible because of how well it was setup for writing in it, so I have been using it for about a month.
It is unfortunate, but it seems for binding options the ESV blows everything else away. Must be a sign of the marketing engine behind it.
- backwoodsman
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:32 am
- Location: Not quite at the ends of the earth, but you can see it from here.
Re: ESV error?
It doesn't surprise me. I use the ESV a little because I have it on computer; even with my very limited use I've run into a couple other places where they added something to make it fit a particular doctrine, instead of making an accurate translation. For that reason I'm starting to like it a bit less than I used to.
Re: ESV error?
There is no such thing as a "word for word translation" since Greek doesn't work that way (nor any other language for that matter).JR wrote:I did a lot of debating with Mormons and I usually found it saved a lot of time (and mistakes) if I had a word for word translation handy, like the NASB
It has let you down in this very verse. It has rendered "στοιχεια" (stoicheia) as "things". If Paul had meant "things" he would have omitted the noun "στοιχεια" altogether. Any good Greek lexicon will tell you that this word means "elements" or "rudiments" or "primary principles" or "elementary principles".I can't think of any critical verse where the NASB has let me down.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.