Music - can it be food offered to idols?

[Ian]

I`m slowly (way too slowly) putting together a show for public viewing here in Switzerland which I will call Sehnsucht ("mystical longing"). It will borrow heavily from C S Lewis` writings in "The weight of glory". The core theme will be that this "yearning" many, most or even all of us have inside us was placed there for a reason - it points to something concrete and was meant ultimately to be satisfied. It will be unabashedly Christocentric; so help me God.
I do a lot of motion control night time lapse work these days, for which the amazing music of Schiller would be very fitting (they`re a notch even above Brian Eno, sorry TK! ). But the founding member of the band is much into Eastern mysticism as you can see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY1h08Q-4aw

He is the bald-headed man in the video.

I would like to approach him for permission to use his music. But what do you think? Is his music indelibly tainted by his philosophy? Would the question in the title of this thread be pertinent in this case? Should I not approach him?

Thanks for your input.
I don`t post much. I am a better asker of questions than answerer of them. But I read all your posts.

[Ian]

If I could half answer my own question (but only half): did the maker of that musical piece make it in homage to the spiritual forces he appeared to be trying to consult in that video (presumably about the pretty Asian woman)? I very much doubt it and I`m sure he would deny it. I imagine he just loves making music. But still I`m unsure.

[mattrose]

Personally, I think once instrumental music enters the public sphere, it becomes the interpretive property of the listener (I'm talking, here, about personal usage of music, not copyright law). No matter what the mindset or motivation of the music's creator, a listener can utilize that same music in any way he/she sees fit.

This is not as true when it comes to music with lyrics. Lyrics bring with them a more limited range of meaning (ie, you could hardly use a lyric that reads, "Satan is cool" as a means of praise to Yahweh). But instrumental music, while it has some range of use (I doubt many would use heavy metal at a funeral, or for communion), the range is much broader... the meanings far less exact.

[darinhouston]

But what does it say when played backwards at half speed? Seriously, I tend to agree. But even as to lyrics some are vague enough to carry different meanings to different listeners. Some secular music to me has strong themes that are edifying for Chriatian meditation even as to music though certain chord progressions and rhythmical methods could have non-edifying tantric or other effects on our minds and psyches (or so some say).

[Singalphile]

I'm not qualified to respond, but I won't let that stop me this time ...

I don't suppose that certain instruments, melodies, or rhythms have intrinsic philosophical meaning, though they may have come to have certain associations in our culture(s). That music doesn't seem particularly tainted to me. I would say that the music/videos have a mystical, "spiritual", or even spooky quality, but that's not necessarily bad, I guess. His intent, I don't know. I can see how you might be concerned about that.

You could at least tell him that you're considering using some of his "amazing music" (as you say) and ask him if it would be alright if you do decide to do so. If nothing else, you might be able let him know about your show, and he'd have a nice, friendly conversation with a good Christian guy like yourself (or so I assume) .

I would hesitate to use some music if the lyrics were very unedifying or if I thought that the music or artist would very likely lead people away from God or good things. I don't see any of that from those videos, though I just browsed a bit, and I don't speak German or whatever that was, and I'm not qualified, as mentioned.

[TK]

I think I had started a discussion in the old forum entitled "Secular music that seems devotional" or something like that.

I think there is a lot of music, particulary instrumental music, that can bring God to mind, regardless of the intent of the composer. I agree with Matt that once it is "out" we can interpret as we wish. It may be harder to do this with certain types of music (such as Ravi Shankar) because of obvious associations. Although I do like Ravi Shankar in small doses. Ian knows I am a huge fam of Brian Eno's ambient stuff because I find it makes me think about God all the time. I have no idea what his religious or philosophical leanings are; it really doesn't matter to me. If there was such a thing as "Christian ambient music" I am not sure how it could sound much different. If anyone knows about any Christian "ambient" music please let me know.

Music like that produced by Schiller seems to have no agenda in and of itself; the agenda is in the ear of the hearer. It is reminsicent of another band I really like, Hammock, who produces some beautiful instrumental music, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enaEdyw5J24

TK

[Ian]

Thanks for your replies. The gneral tenor of what you`re all saying accords with my own thoughts.

But you know what will happen, I`ll mail him asking for permission, and then hear nothing But you never know

[RickC]

Long time, no post . . . .

Ian (to the OP),
As far as the guy from Schiller goes: I'd tend to think that, unless he's against Christianity and/or wouldn't want to be seen as promoting it in any way, that he'd be glad to have his music spread in whatever manner or form. So you might mention that you'll be crediting him (as I'm sure you would, if you haven't already). Briefly, on the vid: I listen to talk radio at work & a show called "Coast to Coast" (is on all nite, I work nites). "Coast to Coast" has all kinds of spiritual & paranormal topics and guests (and I might mention, a few legitimate Bible scholars like Michael Heiser). In any event, I think the Schiller vid might be new, coz a "Coast" guest said we're currently in the Chinese Astrology: Year of the Tiger (which doesn't matter much to me coz I'm a Monkey) LOL
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Re: Music and/or music lyrics that aren't Christian
I think I recall TK's thread on the old forum. (We've discussed music several times). At any rate, I've seen the Christian artist Phil Keaggy about 5 times; the last 2 being in 2002 and 2005. In both concerts he played "Here Comes the Sun" by George Harrison. From Phil's youtube vids, it seems the song is in his regular repertoire, as there are a few different vids of the song. I was hoping Phil might come out to meet his fans at the last two shows, but he didn't. I was going to ask if he realized that the theology of "Here Comes the Sun" is Hindu (as many of Harrison's songs are). I'd tend to think Phil would know this. Had I had this conversation with Phil, I'd want his opinion as to why he plays it 'as a Christian'. I'll guess that he not only liked the song (obviously) but that he could 'feel free' to play it, as almost everyone thinks the song is (merely) about a guy and his girlfriend, in the winter time.

Otherwise, though I've probably posted about it before: I get a LOT of inspiration from listening to secular bands. Most notedly, from YES and RUSH (who I saw in concert last Sept; an old Navy buddy of mine had an extra ticket (his wife had to work). RUSH members claim to be atheist. Yet their lyrics reflect a deep spirituality. Perhaps more of the agnostic or seeking variety, but it's there. Their song "Mission" has always fired me up for, like, just LIFE! "A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission" (and one can only imagine how much theology one could extract from the lyric: God's dream (before creation), our dreams, etc.). As to YES,not many folks know many their lyrics are essentially Buddhist. When I listen to YES, I keep this in mind, but get all-inspired anyway. I figure, if it makes me feel good & I don't become a Zen Hedonist, why not? I mean, really! LOL
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TK,

Two (progressive rock) internet radio station you'd probably like:

Progressive Positivity
(see the About page, they have a Mission Statement)

Delicious Agony
(also a 'positive' site & they play Phil Keaggy/Glass Harp occasionally)

Actually, both sites feature a lot of Christian bands, which, there's quite a few out there that have 'ambient' music, as well as other more Pink Floydish or Dream Theater-like sounds.

Lastly, I like a band named "Transatlantic" who has members from several bands: Neal Morse, a Christian, formerly of Spock's Beard; Roine Stolt, an agnostic, of The Flower Kings; and drummer, Mike Portnoy, a Jewish guy, formerly of Dream Theater.

I've got two of their vids in a playlist on my youtube page:
Scroll to Transatlantic - Whirlwind
(I have several theological vids too).

And I wonder what influence and impact Neal has on those unbelieving guys?
They surely seem to get along well!

Thanks!

[morbo3000]

Chuckle: this has become the music recommendation thread now.

As far as music tainted by the artist. Frank Zappa was an eclectic musician. He was also very atheist. I was going through a season where I was being told that secular music was of the devil (this was big in the 80's.) Zappa's music encompasses humorously profane lyrics, but also multiple CD's of pure guitar solos, numerous orchestral works, and numerous electronic albums. He was quite prolific. Try as I might to "spiritually discern" his music, I just could not find satanism coming from Uncle Meat. My spirit is much more likely to be brought down by the "Christian" growling vocal music my teens sometimes listen to.

re: music recommendations.

While "California" YES was in charge (Trevor Rabin, Alan White, et al) four members of the classic lineup wanted to do some albums, but couldn't use the name YES. So, they put out two albums called "Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe." On their first studio album, there is a song called "Order of the universe," that nearly brought me to tears when the song climaxed. It is worship. Thomas Aquinas had things to say about the order of the universe.

Spock's Beard as a whole is quite good. The Neal Morse era is amazing. Especially as you hear spiritual themes as he progressed to Christianity. Check out "Snow."

Neal's solo work is quite impressive. Especially, Testimony, ? (regarding the Davidic temple) and Solo Scriptura (a musical of sorts about Martin Luther.) Each of those albums was thematic. His more recent stuff notsomuch.

Finally, Kerry Livgren from Kansas has tons of solo work. Most notably, he reunited members of the original (pre-classic lineup) Kansas and called them Proto-Kaw. I think they have 4 albums. In 2000, he had written a bunch of music that he felt would be perfect for the classic lineup, so he proposed the music to them and it became the album "Somewhere to Elsewhere," which he considers the best Kansas album.

[TK]

Jon Anderson of Yes sang vocals on the song "The only thing I need" on the "Streams" compilation CD. I know this doesnt mean he is a Christian, but I was sort of surprised to hear him singing vocals on a worship song. It is a pretty cool song too.

TK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm22Ml-u2Y4