"God is not great"

[steve7150]

So wrote famous atheist and intellectual Christopher Hitchens in his book and now he will find out if God is great or not. I don't know much about Hitchens but the title of his book is striking in that it suggests anger or sarcasm or disappointment but not real lack of belief. However i didn't read the book so i may be wrong.
So i wonder about Hitchens, meaning as an active atheist who i think even debated believers, was he evil or deceived or looking for truth as he understood it or was he deliberately misleading people? BTW he just died of cancer at age 62.
Is he in hell forever?
Is he in hell to be reformed?
Is he annhilated?
Is he tormented and then annihilated?
Is he in heaven now?
Is he sleeping or simply dead?

What is justice for him?

[TheEditor]

Hi Steve,

I wouldn't be bold enough to presume one way or another myself. However, I believe that the dead are dead. There is a general ressurection and I believe that the Scriptures indicate that we answer for how we have acted with the knowledge we have.

Regards, Brenden.

[steve7150]

Hi Steve,

I wouldn't be bold enough to presume one way or another myself. However, I believe that the dead are dead. There is a general ressurection and I believe that the Scriptures indicate that we answer for how we have acted with the knowledge we have.

Regards, Brenden.







Hi Brenden,
Since your are an ex-JW have you ever heard of the Associated bible students or the radio show from the website "ChristianQuestions.net"? I studied with them for awhile but i do think Paul said his own spirit would be with the Lord at his death.

[TheEditor]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I have had communication with most of the Bible Student groups, although I have not specifically listened to the program you mentioned. As for Paul's comments; I am not certain that this is a statement regarding an immediate condition. He does not say, "Once I leave this body I will immediately be present with the Lord", his focus seems to be on being found acceptable to the Lord, whether while alive now in the body, or when found by him absent from it. I have always had a bit of trouble with this verse taken from either point of view, but it does appear a little ambiguous to me.

Regards, Brenden.

[steve7150]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I have had communication with most of the Bible Student groups, although I have not specifically listened to the program you mentioned. As for Paul's comments; I am not certain that this is a statement regarding an immediate condition. He does not say, "Once I leave this body I will immediately be present with the Lord", his focus seems to be on being found acceptable to the Lord, whether while alive now in the body, or when found by him absent from it. I have always had a bit of trouble with this verse taken from either point of view, but it does appear a little ambiguous to me.

Regards, Brenden.





Hi Brenden,
If that were Paul's only statement on that matter it might seem ambiguous to me also but IMO in Phil 1 & 2nd Cor 5 he seems pretty specific to me. You might want to check out the radio show with Jonathan & Rick on Christianquestions.net, it's very good. I met Rick for lunch & hope to see him again soon. He is the guy on the right.

[steve]

This article was published just prior to Hitchens' death: http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/08/is-ch ... to-convert

[RICHinCHRIST]

This is an interesting article as well...

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/1 ... &hpt=hp_c2

[TheEditor]

Hi Steve (7150),

Well, I guess it depends on what your basic belief is regarding the intermediate state when you read those passages. I remember listening to a popular radio preacher trying to reconcile the belief in resurrection with the idea of being in heaven immediately upon death. He addressed his audience with the concept of an “intermediate body”; that somehow a spirit longs for a body and so God accommodates that longing in the time between death and resurrection. The logic was painful to listen to, but I suspect his preconceived notions blinded him to the absurdity of the reasoning employed.

My thought is that the balance of Scripture seems to suggest that death equals unconsciousness. So, whether that means a form of "soul sleep", or complete death until the resurrection, I do not know. When I come across a few passages that seem to suggest otherwise, I try to see if the verse can mean something other than immediate heavenly life. Hence the suggestion I made earlier.

The idea of afterlife and when and how and what form has obviously been on the minds of believers for millenia.

But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.--1 Corinthians 15:35-49)

My dear friends, we are already God's children, though what we will be hasn't yet been seen. But we do know that when Christ returns, we will be like him, because we will see him as he truly is--1 John 3:2

It appears to me that the reward of life is given at Christ's return. Judgment and resurrection seem to happen at the same time. Paul indicates that the glory of the heavenly is different by a great degree, given his use of “seeds” as an analogy. John says that “we don't yet know what we shall be” but, “we shall be like Him”. I just don't see enough compelling reason to believe in an “intermediate state” in which the believer has some kind of heavenly life before they receive a “resurrection body”. To my reading, all of the events happen at the same time.

I must admit that the idea of going to heaven upon ones death has it's appeal. But I am not convinced as of yet.

Regards, Brenden.

[Paidion]

Here is the way I understand 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (NKJV):

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. for in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.

When our earthly body is destroyed, we have a "building from God", the resurrection body. This resurrrection body is immortal, permanent in the heavens. Right now we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with the resurrection body.

For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now he who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the spirit as a guarantee.

While we are in our present, mortal body, we are burdened, not because we want to become "unclothed", that is, disembodied spirits, but rather that we would become further clothed with the resurrection body, so that mortality may be replaced with immortality.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the lord.

We know that while we are in this mortal body, we are absent from the Lord. We would rather be absent from this mortal body, and to be present with the Lord in the immortal, resurrection body which we will receive at the coming of our Lord.