What is the 'wind' analogy in John 3?

[mattrose]

I seem to be a little stuck in trying to figure out exactly what analogy Jesus is making in John 3:8

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

Thoughts...

1. It almost seems as if it would make easiest sense if we deleted "everyone born of" from the last sentence (leaving "so it is with the Spirit"). This would mean that the Spirit goes wherever He pleases and cannot be managed by humanity. Perhaps Jesus was, in a subtle way, rebuking Nicodemus and his fellow authorities for thinking they could control who was "In" and who was "Out" of God's kingdom via institutional Judaism.

2. BUT the "everyone born of" is indeed part of the sentence, which seems to indicate that the comparison is not strictly WIND compares to SPIRIT, but more accurately WIND compares to EVERYONE BORN OF THE SPIRIT. The most natural way I read this suggests that non-born again people just can't figure out born-again people. They march to the beat of a different drummer, so to speak. This point has merit, but feels sorta odd to me in context.

3. Then I started thinking more about the conversational context. Nicodemus is struggling to understand this "born-again" thing b/c it's not literal/physical. So maybe the point of the analogy is that just because something can’t be directly observed or managed by human institutions, doesn’t dictate that it is not a reality. Close to point 1, I know.

That's the best I can do with summarizing my scattered thoughts on this. I was hoping for some thoughts from ya'll

[mattrose]

Do you think this statement captures it?

The wind can’t be directly observed or managed by human institutions and yet we can still know it is a reality by observing its effects. Likewise, those who are born of the Spirit can’t be directly observed or managed by human institutions and yet we can still know they have truly been born again because we see changes in them.

[steve7150]

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.







Perhaps Jesus was painting a picture for Nicademus who being a Pharisee would think a visable sign of God's blessings were physical things and possessions but these values would'nt be what motivates folks born of the Spirit.
It would be things that to Nicodemus may be mysterious, unseen, unpredictable, things he was'nt ready to grasp.

[TK]

People who are born of the Spirit are like the wind-- they MOVE wherever the Spirit moves. This is not just a geographical concept, although it might be. It simply means that when the Holy Spirit is moving, we, who are Spirit-filled believers, move with Him. And in order to move in the Spirit, we must honor the Spirit's presence by yielding to Him and giving Him first place. Mobility relates to life in the Spirit. Jesus said, in effect, that if you are born in the Spirit, you are moving like the wind. It is a life-issue, not a geographic issue, although God might indeed move us geographically. People that move are alive, and people who are alive in the Spirit move with the Spirit.

TK

[Michelle]

It kind of seems to me that to the first century Jew, where and to whom you were born was the most important aspect about your life, although it's one of the things an individual has no control over. They knew their lineage - tribe and house - going way back. (I can only recite my ancestors going back to the mid-nineteenth century.) They were identified by region and town, even if your roots were nothing to be proud of. (Can anything good come from Nazareth?) Men were thankful not to be women, freemen were thankful not to be slaves, and, most importantly, Jews were thankful not to be gentiles. The men even have a prayer of thanksgiving they said every morning about it.

Nicodemus had it ALL going on. (Check out verse 1: There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.) Boy, if I had all that, believing it put me in good standing with God, I doubt I would welcome the message that I must be born again. I had already won the trifecta the first time. I might even be tempted to retort sarcastically about being old and re-entering my mother's womb.

Jesus is comparing those born of the spirit with the wind and what he mentions are its origin and its destination. He says you know the wind is there because you hear the sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it's going. Where it comes from and where it will go don't matter with the wind. (I live in a windy place - believe me, it doesn't matter when it's blowing.) It's the same with those born of the spirit - male or female, slave or free, Jew or Greek (Galatian 3:28) it doesn't matter anymore how you were born physically.

[darinhouston]

I tend to think it's not comparing the people with the wind, but the Spirit, even though the grammar's a little awkward to our ears in translation. Just as it is with the wind, those walking by the Spirit don't hear an audible direct word from a known source all the time -- it comes and goes, and is a little hard to predict and discern sometimes, but if you "go with it," it will carry you where you need to go.

[mattrose]

Thanks so much for all the feedback. I love having a good forum to ask these detail oriented questions on and get insightful feedback. Anyone else out there, feel free to chime in!

I've been enjoying teaching through John. It's the only Gospel I haven't taught through yet. I was putting it off until I felt very established in the Synoptics and because it's got so many phrases like this that need to be chewed on quite a bit.

[Paidion]

I seem to be a little stuck in trying to figure out exactly what analogy Jesus is making in John 3:8

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

Through this analogy, Jesus is saying that just as you cannot tell where the wind comes from or where it is going, so everyone born of the Spririt doesn't know whether he is coming or going!

Pardon me, I just couldn't let that opportunity pass. I will just make a few comments which might be helpful. First, the same Greek word is used for both "wind" and "spirit". Secondly, the analogy seems chiefly to compare "The wind blows wherever it pleases" with "The Holy Spirit does what He wants". So the wind moves objects about, and sometimes people can't determine the wind direction. For the person who is begotten or generated (not "born") out of the Spirit, you can't really figure out the motivation for what he does. For he is moved by the Spirit, and his actions are unpredictable, and may seem even contradictory at times.

[mikew]

Its funny how Nicodemus became more interested in the born again issue rather than the next point regarding the wind. Indeed the wind analogy is more of a curiosity and had been provided as a description of the intended effect of being born again.

The analogy here would seem to show that the Pharisees had made rigid the traditions of man and had stifled the ability of many people to come to Christ. The people could have been expecting God either not to do anything or maybe that God would only come to their aid in a specific fashion.

So Jesus was showing that the Pharisees were not capable of understanding the actions of Christ nor were they able to walk in the free manner (unlabored, unpredicatable) characteristic of the Spirit. This all seems to be in anticipation of people receiving the Holy Spirit and the mind of Christ so as to have the ability to live with the proper mindset.

I would not say that our focus should be on living unpredictably but possibly we should doublecheck our actions and see if they are predictable by man. Are we simply following a common nature of man to assemble for a religious gathering or are we truly meeting together for a 'spiritually' minded reason?
Are Christians acting as any moral-based religion in seeking to make a self-righteous claim or are we living as examples also of God's mercy? If the behavior is too predictable by man's standard, maybe we are simply following the mind of man.

This tendency to fall back on to existence under man's wisdom (rather than God's) is probably part of the explanation why Jesus had to come unto death and resurrection to bring forth new life.

Of course in may analysis I have introduced ideas that are presented later in scripture, it is obvious that Jesus was saying that Nicodemus and other people needed to be changed in order to follow a proper path in life. There was an error in Nicodemus' existing manner of life and behavior, an error especially harmful due to his position (and his comrades) in leadership.

[Apollos]

My view is that Jesus is saying you can't see the Spirit, you can only hear it, and so also you can't see the change which takes place when someone is born again, but you can discern the effects of it.