Finger of God

[Ian]

I`m a little surprised this has not been brought up here yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7atLDcVUg
It`s amazing and well worth seeing the whole 10 parts.
I`d be very interested to hear of your anecdotes or hearsays regarding similar occurrences in your area (gold teeth etc!).

[Candlepower]

I`d be very interested to hear of your anecdotes or hearsays regarding similar occurrences in your area (gold teeth etc!).

I watched all of part one. After a minute or two, I suspected it was a hoax. I have not changed my opinion, and I'm not interested enough in hoaxes to watch another minute of the remaining parts. The old adage, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" may not be perfect advice all the time, but it comes close.

The Apostle Paul advises, "that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting." (Eph 14:4) I highlighted what I think are the key words pertaining to the "Finger of God."

Here's an article you might want to check out. http://ccpastormike.wordpress.com/2010/ ... deception/

CP

[Ian]

Hi CP,

Your reply rocked me, not because I have grounds to counter what was written in the article to which you linked (being a Brit I know little about North American movements and churches), but because Finger of God was recommended to me by a Christian friend for whom I have the highest regard, both as a person and in his (very much front-line) ministry on the streets of the UK.

I would ask this though - does the devil have the creative power to put gold teeth in people? Is he not merely the destroyer? I`m not totally sold on the deception argument, not yet at least.
Or am I to believe that the old dears I see in part one of the video are all liars, each and every one of them? Why, at that stage of their lives?

[backwoodsman]

I would ask this though - does the devil have the creative power to put gold teeth in people?

No need for creative power to do that; he's apparently quite capable of manipulating matter, and that's all that would be necessary.

Is he not merely the destroyer?

No, he's not merely the destroyer. He is, first and foremost, a deceiver. Good people are deceived by these sorts of things because they don't know scripture, and/or because they choose to ignore all the scriptural warnings against deception and admonishments to be firmly grounded in the Word and sound doctrine. Instead, they chase after flashier things, and choose to believe that anything supernatural is God's doing, not Satan's. That makes it really easy for one who finds it profitable to masquerade as an angel of light in order to deceive believers.

[Perry]

I would ask this though - does the devil have the creative power to put gold teeth in people? Is he not merely the destroyer?

For consideration:

Or am I to believe that the old dears I see in part one of the video are all liars, each and every one of them? Why, at that stage of their lives?

No, I don't think it's necessary to believe this... It's quite possible those old dears can be deceived themselves...

[TK]

Hi Ian--

I am not sure if you were around when I posted my "charismatic experience" i had a while back. The discussion can be found here and my story is noted on 2/1/10 at 9:55.

http://theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3104

I am still skeptical about some things, but much less so than I used to be. I think it is important to EXPECT God to move supernaturally. If we are overy skeptical, then I am not sure how we can expect God to do supernatural things. How can we believe for a miracle if we don't (really, in our heart of hearts) believe in miracles, or that they still happen today?

Just recently I heard that a mission group in Brazil just recently witnessed about 10 people who were killed in the mudslides brought back to life, some after being dead for 3 days. I WANT to believe this is true, but doubts do creep in.

So I have changed to change my "defaul" position from instant skepticism to hopeful belief. I may be naive, but I am not sure how far being a skeptic about everything will take me. Jesus seemed fed up with total skeptics.

TK

[steve]

Jesus said, in John 10:37, "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not."

This suggests that Jesus believed that His works were recognizably those of God...i.e., such works as resemble the works God is known to do. If not, then Jesus counseled skepticism.

If people are said to have been raised from the dead, I am less skeptical (since these are works such as God has done repeatedly in the past) than if I am told that God maunfactures gold to fill a cavity (it would be more like Jesus to heal the cavity, if He were to do anything about it at all). Putting gold in a cavity could be said to be the works of a dentist, but there is little to suggest that it resembles, in principle or in precedent, the works of God.

I may be wrong about this, of course, but I find nothing about theatrical miracles (like gold dust or unnecessary manna appearing in a Bible) that could be said to resemble any miracle of Jesus or of God in the Old Testament. God did miracles that were useful for people. Those miracles involving gold and gold dust appear to me to be a distraction from the things that actually matter to Jesus.

Further, the miracles of God tended to be stupendous and impressive, whereas these ones, it seems to me, would tend to make Christians look gullible and somewhat frivolous.

I believe in modern-day miracles...both from God and from Satan. I fully expect the ones that come from the finger of God to have His fingerprints, not those of another.

[Perry]

Hi Ian--

I am not sure if you were around when I posted my "charismatic experience" i had a while back. The discussion can be found here and my story is noted on 2/1/10 at 9:55.

http://theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3104

I am still skeptical about some things, but much less so than I used to be...
TK

TK,

Just to be up front, I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to supernatural manifestations. Perhaps this is a flaw.

I just went and read that thread. FWIW, I find the description of your experience far more credible than the stuff in the YouTube video in the original post... partly, I think, because of the cautious way which you offered it. It's interesting that you mention that your experiences lead to "water works". If I have ever had an experience of being "moved by the spirit" that would be it for me too. I've never experienced anything that could be considered by an outsider (or even me for that mater) as at all supernatural, but that doesn't mean that I don't consider them very real experiences with the Holy Spirit. These experiences can be very intense, and I don't doubt their veracity or that they are from the Lord. For me, they always happen when I'm alone... well and sometimes when I'm my wife and I are speaking about spiritual matters.

An example may help...

Recently, I was reading the following passage:


I've read this passage many times before, but for whatever reason, at that particular time, it moved me to profound tears.

Put frankly, I bawled like a baby.

I had this intense feeling of empathy for the woman and her experience, and I started thinking about all the primitive "cures" she must have been subjected to over a period of 12 years. And how fearful she's described in verse 33, perhaps thinking that Jesus would be angry with her, and yet she confesses.

I will never read that passage the same again.

It may not mean much to others, but it means plenty to me, and it's all the proof I need that the Lord is working with me. I can't imagine any supernatural manifestations having a more profound impact on me. These kinds of experiences don't happen with extreme frequency for me, but they do happen enough for me to be confident that the Lord is a part of my life and I see them as reaffirmation that He's still working with me. At no point in these experiences have I ever felt that I'm "out of my mind" or that I'm in any way being "controlled" by any outside force.

Of course, the skeptic in me whispers, "yeah, but you cried when you read Where the Red Fern Grows too and you had a lump in your throat when Samwise was pining for strawberries back in the shire".

And there may be some truth to the idea that sometimes I'm just more emotional than at others, and that, as a human, my emotions can be, and at times are, manipulated. But when that manipulation occurs during my "routine" bible reading... I'm willing to give God the benefit of the doubt.

[TK]

Awesome, Perry. Thanks for sharing that. I love it when I have read a passage of scripture 1000 times and on the 1001st time it hits me like it hit you. That, to me, is God pure and simple.

Just recently I watched a dvd i got from the library called "The Road to Emmaus." It was only 30 minutes and was a dramatization of the events described in luke 24. It was so simple- but i have to tell you it was incredibly powerful, and brought the waterworks. Maybe because my favorite verse is Lk 24:32.

TK

[darinhouston]

Personally, I find Luke 24:32 one of the most frustrating of all the bible -- oh, to have heard that conversation!