external ministries

[darinhouston]

We watched a video this morning by Chuck Colson drawing from his new book "How Now Should We Live."

Jesus had a lot to say about mercy and justice ministries but to what extent was His message an external one, to reach out beyond the church in those ministries? Some of the commands are said to be "especially" for the brethren and that seems to imply mercy should extend beyond and to meet the needs of all wherever they are but Christ doesn't seem to have extended mercy beyond those coming to Him in faith or in a context that would show it to have extended from another's faith.

Separately, what about social justice? To what end would Christ have us try and redeem or transform the world around us (certainly not at the expense of first reforming and transforming the body of Christ).

I'd love a conversation in this regard.

[steve7150]

Some of the commands are said to be "especially" for the brethren and that seems to imply mercy should extend beyond and to meet the needs of all wherever they are but Christ doesn't seem to have extended mercy beyond those coming to Him in faith or in a context that would show it to have extended from another's faith.

Separately, what about social justice? To what end would Christ have us try and redeem or transform the world around us (certainly not at the expense of first reforming and transforming the body of Christ).






I think Jesus mission was to first come to the jews first and then later the gospel went to the gentiles through Paul. Since Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world , i think his main emphasis was not social justice but on our relationship with God. He did say to the rich young ruler "sell all you have and feed the poor" yet he said to Judas "the poor will always be here" implying that the worshipping of him that the girl with the oil was in effect doing was more important then giving that money to the poor. In Acts the early believers freely shared with each other but voluntarily, but i think the purpose was to ultimately spread the gospel. Certainly Jesus said "love your neighbor and enemy" and that includes helping him in any way we can, particularly what he said in the Sermon on the Mount, but Jesus himself as a man was only one person and had a very focused agenda and it was not really about social justice. Yet if we really would follow his principals we would have social justice as a by-product.

[thrombomodulin]

Separately, what about social justice? To what end would Christ have us try and redeem or transform the world around us

I think when you ask "to what end", you have asked the right question. But it is best to begin a discussion by defining the problem - the use of the term social justice implies some perceived injustice which is to be remedied. What is the injustice perceived, and what do you believe is the associated cause?

[darinhouston]

Separately, what about social justice? To what end would Christ have us try and redeem or transform the world around us

I think when you ask "to what end", you have asked the right question. But it is best to begin a discussion by defining the problem - the use of the term social justice implies some perceived injustice which is to be remedied. What is the injustice perceived, and what do you believe is the associated cause?

Good point -- I'm not speaking of social justice as many today would use the term -- I'm speaking generally about involvement in politics and the like to try and make sure that the world's laws reflect God's justice (whatever that might be on a given topic). I'm thinking stuff like "blue laws" and the like and not so much distributive forms of economic policies (though that would be another example -- though we might disagree on which view God would prefer).

I'm not wanting to discuss particular policy issues as much as the general matter of how we are to engage the world around us and try to have it reflect God's ways. Jesus certainly didn't seem to try and change the Roman way ("render unto Caesar and the sort") but instead brought a counter-cultural revolution and placed His people within the world to act as ambassadors of His Kingdom and not as activists to change the world's kingdom. (or did he?) School prayer and evolution in the schools certainly come to mind.

[thrombomodulin]

The laws enacted by a legislature can be either just or unjust. A discerning Christian should be able to identify which laws are just, and which are not. Any government official, who is also a Christian, ought to desire the repeal laws which are unjust, and the implementation of those laws which are just. Even if a government official is not a Christian, it would still follow that God has an opinion about whether the laws he enacts are just or not, and further he is accountable to God for his action (Isaiah 10:1). In Matthew 6 we are to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven - which I presently understand to mean that it is a desired end that God's reign on earth expands to include all things. This of course, would involve the repeal of laws which are not just, as rulers recognize it as such and choose to submit to the Lord's authority. I arrive at the conclusion that law is something about which Christians should pronounce what they have discerned to be good or evil. The legislature, judges, and executive officials, should not be uninformed about what God requires of them, namely what actions are just, and which are not.