Faith without Hope?

[Jim]

Can someone be saved by faith and have no hope?

If no, what does this do to faith alone?

if yes, what does this say about a true living faith?

Jim

[TK]

Hi Jim-

when you say "no hope" what specifically are you talking about?

TK

[Jim]

I was thinking along the lines of Romans 8:23-24 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope; for what anyone sees, why does he also hope for it?
The text of is speaking of the future ressurection and redemption of our bodies. Can someone have faith without this hope? If so how?

[Paidion]

I think the problem disappears when we see that we are saved by neither faith nor hope.
The commonly-quoted Ephesians 2:8 does not say that we are saved by faith but that we are saved through faith.

Romans 8:24 does not say that we are saved by hope, but that we are saved in hope.

[Jim]

I think the problem disappears when we see that we are saved by neither faith nor hope.
The commonly-quoted Ephesians 2:8 does not say that we are saved by faith but that we are saved through faith.

Romans 8:24 does not say that we are saved by hope, but that we are saved in hope.

Ok, first by grace through our faith. Would it be ok to say that by Grace first, hearing the gospel ignites hope, leading through faith unto salvation? So someone who does not see the hope would never come to faith correct. Someone who does not see the hope in the Gospel never has Love towards God ignited which in turn cannot have faith. OK I am babbaling, but I am seeking also how love, faith and hope all work together with love as the greatest.

[Paidion]

Let's look at the account of the first disciples and how they came to be disciples:

As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. And he said to them, "Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." Immediately they left their nets and followed him.

And going on from there he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets, and he called them.
Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed him. Matthew 4:18-22

Did they have faith? The account doesn't say. Did they have hope? The account doesn't say.
It doesn't say even that they had love!

What then was their motivation in leaving all and following Jesus? The account doesn't say. But I have a theory. There's just something about Jesus ---- once you begin to know Him.

[Jim]

Let's look at the account of the first disciples and how they came to be disciples:

As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. And he said to them, "Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." Immediately they left their nets and followed him.

And going on from there he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets, and he called them.
Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed him. Matthew 4:18-22

Did they have faith? The account doesn't say. Did they have hope? The account doesn't say.
It doesn't say even that they had love!

What then was their motivation in leaving all and following Jesus? The account doesn't say. But I have a theory. There's just something about Jesus ---- once you begin to know Him.

True Paidion, there is something about Jesus... He is God incarnate

I can see were some people are choosen for a specific task but do you think this type of situation occurs with everyone?

[Paidion]

True Paidion, there is something about Jesus... He is God incarnate

God incarnate? What do you mean by "God"? Is He the Father who clothed Himself with human flesh?

Jesus prayed to His Father as to another person. Once He prayed, "This is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God AND Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

I can see were some people are choosen for a specific task but do you think this type of situation occurs with everyone?

Many people have been called to discipleship, but only a few have responded positively to the call (and may recognized as "chosen"). The only way to become a disciple is to "forsake all" and follow Him, the requirement which Christ Himself gave. Many people today are called "Christians", but the only true Christians are those who have become Christ's disciples (Acts 11:26).

[Jim]

True Paidion, there is something about Jesus... He is God incarnate

God incarnate? What do you mean by "God"? Is He the Father who clothed Himself with human flesh?

Jesus prayed to His Father as to another person. Once He prayed, "This is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God AND Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

I can see were some people are choosen for a specific task but do you think this type of situation occurs with everyone?

Many people have been called to discipleship, but only a few have responded positively to the call (and may recognized as "chosen"). The only way to become a disciple is to "forsake all" and follow Him, the requirement which Christ Himself gave. Many people today are called "Christians", but the only true Christians are those who have become Christ's disciples (Acts 11:26).

Ok i guess you must not accept the doctrine of the trinity, but He is God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

The word, the very Word of God, comes from what we would call the heart of God, the very essence of who God is, thus the Fathers Word was in the beginning, is the Word of the Father and the Fathers Word is God. So Yes, Jesus, the Word of the Father is God incarnate.

It was Jesus who was predestined before the foundation of the World and it was Jesus who is the only Elect. It is Jesus alone who offers Life because He alone conquered death. This is the Hope which we haven't seen, but it is the Hope that fires the heart towards God. It is this Hope that we, instead of living life in a world were death rules and our heart desires for eternal that those who believe no longer have to fear death or struggle against death. Death leads to sin for the sting of death is sin. It is Jesus, the Word of the Father, that now mediates for us with the Father. In essence the Word of the Father that became like us, now mediates with the Father and interceeds for us before the Father.

To forsake all for the Son is to Love God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit perfectly... Do you Love God perfectly? Did Peter live a perfect life? How about Paul?\

So again I go back to my original question, without hope can someone have faith unto salvation?