an lds on: By What Authority?

[karenstricycle]

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[darinhouston]

Whoever "wrote" this is NOT of darkness nor of evil, but speaks of Jehovah and a small lineage of people continually throughout.

The gentleness and "speaking of Jehovah" doesn't to my mind prevent it from being of darkness or of evil. Recall the serpent's conversation with Eve? It was pretty cunning and gentle, I think. In my experience, Satan does use gentle distortions of truth and reality to his purposes as a general practice. So, the truthfulness and historical reliability of its truth-claims and the nature and history of the man who made the extraordinary claims should be paramount, not just its general character and the gentleness with which it "sounds" like Scripture and has similar language to Scripture. If John did come back and provide such realities to man, I would think there would be no historical or other error (the reality of translation and transmission errors aside).

I understand that the BOM is replete with absolute factual errors, and that the claims of apostleship and angelic visitation should come with verification beyond that of a (forgive me) certifiable charlatain and others who later are understood to have recanted and/or left the movement.

[Jill]

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[selah]

Karen,

Next chance I get I'll read this thread and then, if you want to, I'll be able to respond to you about "by what authority" you base your beliefs.

SueAnn*:o)

[darinhouston]

The messenger that initiated the Book of Mormon coming forth on september 21,1823, and the messenger that appeared as result of prayer by a river May 15,1829, are two completely different events and two completely different awsome occurences. I'm sorry if my intro confused the two.

The glorified man Moroni on 21st of september 1823, appeared to Joseph Smith and give Joseph Smith the location of the abridged plates of Mormon, and information about the previous existance of the people these abridged writings originated from. c.600BC-c.421AD. Joseph Smith was just 17 years old at the time. He was able to obtain the plates 4 years later at 21 years old.

John the baptist, the very John to be found in the New Testament, gave permission for JS. and OC. to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ and conferred the priesthood of Aaron for the ministering of angels by the laying on of hands. This was on may 15,1829 just as the translation of plates by the power of God and the U.T. was almost complete. Joseph Smith is now just 23 years old.

This is an excellent thread to discuss this -- the whole point is that many non-LDS deny this happened or that if it did it was likely a demon. From my understanding, the only witness to these events seems to have been JS himself (other than some who I understand later recanted). The extraordinary claims about the plates and the "goggles" and all this having disappered, and the commonly understsood "fact" that he was seen as a shyster and tarred and feathered for running other "scams" prior to this time seems to really put the burden on the LDS to show that these events really happened. After that, we have to consider whether it had the ring of truth historically, and whether it comports to scripture to determine whether this may have been a heavenly or instead a demonic visit. But, the initial burden seems to be to show that it really happened. I can't take this on faith or from some burning of the bosom. I have a historic basis for my Christian faith as to the words of the apostles, and the canonicity of our scripture. I need at least this much to respect another "authority."

[Jill]

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[selah]

Hey Karen, this is the first time I see that we are on a thread at the same time!

I just wrote you a long post under "Escatology" and then my pc lost it ---- aghh! that is so frustrating!

...and I don't have time to retype it so I'll just say that I'm happy to meet you and I have to be offline for a few days but will read and reply asap.

Have a great weekend,
SueAnn*:o)

[Jill]

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[selah]

As for "by what Authority", in regard to speaking or acting in the name of God or Jesus Christ, I would hope that we could at least agree that The Bible would be the only end authority for most American Christians. The LDS merely has an extra very small abridgement branching straight out of 1st year Zedekiah, and I think that any LDS lay member would be glad to cooperate in this conversation.

Would you like us to discuss the evidence to show the authority of The Book of Mormon first, or the Bible?

I know a little bit about the evidence to show the Bible is credible but not nearly as much as I would like to.

Also, I would be very willing to listen to you (or any LDS) share what evidence shows the Book of Mormon is the authority we should base our lives on.

Thank you,
SueAnn*

[Jill]

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