Ishmael

[Guest]

In Steve's Calvinism series (if I recall correctly), he suggests the common view that Mohammed/Islam descends from Ishmael is incorrect. Does anyone have any pointers to some scholarship on this point (or other support)? I get tired of hearing it from the pulpit as absolute truth.

[Guest]

I should clarify that I do not deny the Ishmaelite ancestry of some modern Arabs. It is a matter of Arab tradition, and has been questioned by some scholars I have read in the past (unfortunately, I don't remember which ones). I believe that I read that many of them seem to be of Nabataean ancestry. I consider the ancestry of both the Jews and the Arabs to be insignificant, however, and do not have any preferred view about the relationship of Arabs to Ishmael.

[Guest]

Fair point of clarification -- I couldn't agree more, except that it seems to be matter to others and has unfortunate consequences in how vehemently Christians react to Muslims in these days, especially when influential pastors remind folks of the evil demon seed of Ishmael with a wink and a nod.

That gives me somewhere to search -- if anyone has any research tips for me, I'd appreciate them.

[Guest]

how vehemently Christians react to Muslims in these days, especially when influential pastors remind folks of the evil demon seed of Ishmael with a wink and a nod.


Muslims claim to be decended from Ishmael so why would Christians try to dispute it. And the way Pastor's react to Islam i think has a lot more to do with the way Muslim governments and radical muslims treat Christians. Since the Iraq war the Christian population in Iraq has gone from 1.5 mill down to 500K according to Franklin Graham, because Christians are targeted in a society with no real govt authority.

[Guest]

I think it does matter in the same way it matters how some Evangelicals accuse the Jews of being evil for having killed our Messiah. It's just ignorance. Besides, it's only Westerners that I've ever heard associate Islam with Ishmael. It also sort of feeds the kind of "ying and yang" sort of dualism -- for every good thing, there's a corrupted one to balance it or somesuch.

More than that, though, it just annoys me when we let folks repeat things that aren't true without regard for the truth of the thing so long that it then becomes common general knowledge. To me, it's just a disregard for truth that I object to. I'd rather someone just be wrong for a good reason than to have them disregard the value of the truthfulness of a statement, especially if it becomes widespread belief.

I think I've found some interesting things here, but haven't had time to review it.

http://ishteva.tripod.com/ishmael.htm
http://www.imninalu.net/myths-Arabs.htm

[Guest]

we let folks repeat things that aren't true without regard for the truth of the thing so long that it then becomes common general knowledge. To me, it's just a disregard for truth that I object


What am i missing since it's the arabs themselves that claim to be decended from Ishmael.