Is Jesus in Danger of Hellfire?

Post by **__id_1887** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:27 am

More of God's word about God's word:

Matthew 4:4
4 But he answered, “It is written,
“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

John 17:17
17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

II Peter 1:16-21
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.[emphasis added]

In Christ,

Haas

Post by **__id_1887** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:31 am

More of God's word about God's word:

Isaiah 55:10-11
10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven
and do not return there but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

Isaiah 40:6-7
6 A voice says, “Cry!”
And I said, “What shall I cry?”
All flesh is grass,
and all its beauty is like the flower of the field.
7 The grass withers, the flower fades
when the breath of the LORD blows on it;
surely the people are grass.
8 The grass withers, the flower fades,
but the word of our God will stand forever.

II Timothy 3:14-17
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

"acquainted with the sacred writings" = OT Scripture

In Christ,

Haas

Post by **__id_1887** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:43 am

Quote hand typed from Wayne Grudem:

Nevertheless, our hypothetical reconstruction of theses words or situations can never be replaced or compete with Scripture itself as the final authority, nor should we ever allow them to contradict or call into question the accuracy of any of the words of Scripture. We must continually remember that we have in the Bible God’s very words, and we must not try to “improve” on them in some way, for this cannot be done. Rather, we should seek to understand them and then trust them and obey them with our whole heart. (Systematic Theology, pg. 85)

Deuteronomy 29:29
29 “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

1 Corinthians 13:12
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

In Christ,

Haas

Post by **_Paidion** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:23 pm

Are we ever instructed to "rank" God's word (and then add extra-biblical writings to the ranking)?

Not ONCE does the expression "the word of God", which is found in the Bible 43 times, refer to the Bible itself!

Post by **__id_1887** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:44 pm

Not ONCE does the expression "the word of God", which is found in the Bible 43 times, refer to the Bible itself!

Semantics?

What does this mean?

"All Scripture is breathed out by God"

In Christ,

Haas

Post by **_Paidion** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:20 pm

Semantics?

Nope. Fact.

The idea of ascribing "the word of God" to the Bible is an eccliastical invention.

In the Bible, "the word of God" has three distinct meanings (maybe more).

In the OT, the expression often referred to the revelation of God to various men. For example: "The word of God came to Isaiah".

The expression also refers to Jesus, the Son of God (John 1:1).

Tthe primary meaning of "logos" in Greek is "expression". If a person expresses himself, that is his "word". We still use "word" in that way in English. For example, "Brother Joe has a word for us".

Jesus was the expression of God --- the revelation of God to man.

A third use of the expression is found in the book of Acts. In that book "the word of God" refers to the gospel.

Post by **__id_1887** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:38 am

Again,

What does this mean?

"All Scripture is breathed out by God"

In Christ,

Haas

Post by **_Paidion** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:28 am

Again,

Quote:
What does this mean?

"All Scripture is breathed out by God"

I will attempt to explain the statement which Paul wrote in Greek. Here is as literal a translation of Paul’s Greek words as I am capable of making:

Every writing God-breathed and/also profitable toward teaching, toward reproof, toward correction, toward training in righteousness.

The first thing to notice is that there is no verb in the sentence. Translators have supplied the copula verb “is”. Most of them have placed it between “writing” and “God-breathed”. But is that the correct place to put it? Clearly not every writing is God-breathed. The Greek word “graphā” means “a writing”.

In order to make any sense of the verse by putting “is” between “graphā” and “God-breathed”, it would be necessary to translate “graphā” as something more than “writing”. Thus it is translated as “scripture” by most translators. But for many people “scripture” is a word that implies inspired writing.
Thus to say, “Every inspired writing is inspired” is redundant.

Let’s see what happens if we place that little verb “is” after “God-breathed” and translate the conjunction “kai” as “also”. If that is done, the adjective “God-breathed” becomes a modifier of “writing”.

Every God-breathed writing is also profitable toward teaching, toward reproof, toward correction, toward training in righteousness.

The American Standard Version also has "is" placed in this position:

Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.

I believe my rendering of the passage to have been Paul’s intention. For in the previous verse, Paul wrote to Timothy:

… from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I am not sure which writings Paul had in mind when he said “the sacred writings” ---- probably writings such as the Psalms, and those written by Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other prophets. He couldn’t have meant the Old Testament, as we know it today, for the Old Testament “canon” was not yet defined when Paul wrote those words. And clearly he didn’t refer to the New Testament, since not all of the writings of the New Testament had even been written.

In any case, it seems that “the sacred writings” of verse 15 have the same denotation as “the God-breathed writings” of verse 16.

So to answer your question directly, I think that in verse 16, Paul meant that there was a certain set of sacred, God-breathed writings which were profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

Post by **__id_1887** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:32 pm

Paidon,

You wrote:

So to answer your question directly, I think that in verse 16, Paul meant that there was a certain set of sacred, God-breathed writings which were profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

It is my conviction that the God who created everything from nothing moved fallible sinful men to include what we now have as the canon (OT & NT).

I believe it is dangerous to think otherwise. If we think otherwise, then who is to decide what is "God-breathed" and what is not "God-breathed"? Certainly not me.

Resting in Christ,

Haas

Post by **_Paidion** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:37 pm

It is my conviction that the God who created everything from nothing moved fallible sinful men to include what we now have as the canon (OT & NT).

I believe it is dangerous to think otherwise. If we think otherwise, then who is to decide what is "God-breathed" and what is not "God-breathed"? Certainly not me.

You have already decided that God inspired "fallible sinful men" to choose the correct writings to be included in the canon. Therefore inspiration must not be limited to the canonical writings themselves.

Haas, what do you think of the fact that Jude quoted from the book of Enoch (which is extant), stating that "Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, etc'"? I possess the book of Enoch, and have read much of it. It is certain that the book was not written by the ancient Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam. Hower, the early Christians right to the middle of the third century thought it was written by the ancient Enoch ---- Origen (254 A.D. ), in quoting Hebrew literature, assigns the same authority to the Book of Enoch as to the Psalms.

Modern experts are convinced that the book of Enoch was written after the time of Christ. Much of its language, and many of the ideas it contains parallels many passages in the New Testament.

Explanations of weather, and astonomical phenomena are clearly mythological.