How Certain are You?

Post by **_anothersteve** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:31 pm

I'm curious to find out where everyone stands on the certainty they have about this subject.

Post by **_Seth** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:05 pm

You left off the all-important "I'll say anything to get a Calvinist to shut up" option.

Post by **__id_1512** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:47 pm

Hmm...I'm not content with the difference between the first two answers and the second two answers. I don't think that being 100% certain about your view means that you're closed to the possibility of changing your mind.

Being open to the possibility of changing your mind is a matter of being willing to listen and seriously consider opposing views. You can be certain about your understanding of what Scripture teaches, and open to hearing new arguments. In that case, you're certain because of how you've evaluated the evidence so far--you might change your mind with new evidence.

Certainty is your attitude toward your conclusions. Openness is your attitude toward new arguments.

But I understand what you were getting at.

Post by **_anothersteve** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:51 pm

Jugulum wrote

Hmm...I'm not content with the difference between the first two answers and the second two answers. I don't think that being 100% certain about your view means that you're closed to the possibility of changing your mind.

Good point. In the first two options I likely should have said "I've made up my mind". In the second two options I probably should have used less firm language like "The scripture appears to me to teach" or "I see the scripture as teaching".

But I understand what you were getting at.

I'm glad you read between the lines

Post by **__id_1512** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:50 pm

anothersteve wrote:Good point. In the first two options I likely should have said "I've made up my mind". In the second two options I probably should have used less firm language like "The scripture appears to me to teach" or "I see the scripture as teaching".

I'm also fond of, "I'm pretty sure it's this way, but I see a couple issues I haven't resolved to my satisfaction yet." Mainly because that describes me pretty well.

I'm glad you read between the lines

My first thought was to respond, "That's why I'm a Calvinist!" and let you interpret it as you will.

Post by **_anothersteve** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:18 pm

My first thought was to respond, "That's why I'm a Calvinist!" and let you interpret it as you will.

Perhaps you do have some insight !

Post by **__id_1512** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:10 pm

anothersteve wrote:Perhaps you do have some insight !

My insight tells me that what you're saying is, my exegesis is superior, and you secretly know I'm right. It was right there between the lines!

Er, wait. There was only one line. Hmm...

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:20 pm

I don't think that being 100% certain about your view means that you're closed to the possibility of changing your mind.

I think it does imply that ... no matter what the issue. We are not 100% certain about very many matters. But those in which we are sure (or 100% certain), we are not open to changing our mind.

An example:

I am 100% certain that the sum of 2 and 3 is 5. I am closed to the possibility of changing my mind about that sum.

Post by **__id_1512** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:24 pm

Paidion wrote:
I don't think that being 100% certain about your view means that you're closed to the possibility of changing your mind.
I think it is ... no matter what the issue. We are not 100% certain about very many matters. But those in which we are sure (or 100% certain), we are not open to changing our mind.

An example:

I am 100% certain that the sum of 2 and 3 is 5. I am closed to the possibility of changing my mind about that sum.

Well, your example shows a case where you are both 100% certain and closed, but it doesn't show that the two are inextricably linked.

To some extent, this is a semantic quibble. But the reason I see a distinction is as I said: Certainty refers to your attitude toward your views, and openness of mind refers to your attitude toward new arguments.

As I see it, you can form an opinion of total certainty based on all the evidence you have seen and arguments you have evaluated, but remain aware that new information could cause you to change your mind. That awareness does not, as I see it, translate to uncertainty.

But honestly, I can see it from your perspective too, so I'm not going to pick this hill to die on.

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:38 pm

As I see it, you can form an opinion of total certainty based on all the evidence you have seen and arguments you have evaluated, but remain aware that new information could cause you to change your mind.

If that were the case, then you would not be 100% certain. You might be 90% certain, or even 99.9% certain, but not 100% certain. There would be a bit of doubt there, even if miniscule.

That awareness does not, as I see it, translate to uncertainty.

Uncertainty probably translates to somewhere around 50% certain.
So you are right about that. If you were even 90% certain, you would hardly call that "uncertainty."

The Narrow Path Ministries